In November of 1938, Swiss chemist Albert Hofmann was studying the medicinal plant squill and the ergot fungus to create a respiratory and circulatory stimulant, and first synthesized lysergic acid diethylamide, also known as LSD. Hofmann shelved LSD for 5 years before he returned to look at the chemical once again.
While in the midst of resynthesizing LSD, Hofmann accidentally absorbed a small amount of the chemical into his fingertips, and reported strange feelings and fantastic visions later that evening. Curious of his discovery, he later took what he thought was a threshold dose of LSD (0.25 Milligrams) to observe its peculiar effects. Little did Hofmann know that LSD’s true threshold dose is 20 micrograms, and he was sent on an extraordinary psychedelic journey into his own psyche. In what has become a hallmark story in history, Hofmann documented his bicycle ride home after his large dose of LSD,
“Here the notes in my laboratory journal cease. I was able to write the last words only with great effort. I had to struggle to speak intelligibly. I asked my laboratory assistant, who was informed of the self-experiment, to escort me home. We went by bicycle, no automobile being available because of wartime restrictions on their use. On the way home, my condition began to assume threatening forms. Everything in my field of vision wavered and was distorted as if seen in a curved mirror. I also had the sensation of being unable to move from the spot. Nevertheless, my assistant later told me that we had traveled very rapidly. Finally, we arrived at home safe and sound, and I was just barely capable of asking my companion to summon our family doctor and request milk from the neighbors.” (Albert Hofmann, LSD: My Problem Child)
Hofmann was unaware that he had just discovered one of the most potent psychedelics known to man. In the 1950’s LSD exploded in the United States when scientists discovered its clinical application, testing its therapeutic benefits in patient/client settings. Serotonergic psychedelics such as LSD allow its user a deeper exploration of their psyche, often unlocking more psychoanalytic abilities within their minds.
During the first 30 years of LSD research extensive testing was conducted, generating over 1000 scientific papers, dozens of books and multiple conferences. The verdict was in: psychedelics were opening new doors in the clinical therapy world, allowing researchers to delve into the deepest corners of people’s minds as well as treat the most challenging of mental disorders.
Prohibition of LSD came in the 1960’s after the drug became a popular recreational drug among the world’s youth. In 1963 the FDA classified LSD as an Investigational New Drug, which was the first stage of its prohibition and which put new restrictions on its scientific and medical use. Leading figures such as Aldous Huxley and Timothy Leary publicly advocated the use of LSD, and the drug soon became central to the counterculture movement of the 1960’s. People were expanding their consciousness like never before, and this threatened the governments desired and held control over peoples minds. Rumours spread about a person jumping out of their 4th story window while under the influence of LSD, and this caused hysteria to breakout in regards to the possible psychotic dangers of the drug. Possession of LSD became illegal on October 24th, 1968, after which it was classified as a ‘Schedule I’ drug in the US. This silenced almost all scientific and medicinal research for decades, and LSD was put back onto the shelves once again.
Therapeutic Applications of LSD
During the era when LSD research was first being conducted, there was a correlation among the studies that couldn’t be denied; scientists were noting the positive effects observed in patients being treated for a wide variety of conditions.
In a 1963 study performed by Charles Savage of Stanford University, 144 patients were given LSD and mescaline and were each given questionnaires to describe their negative or positive experience. Follow-ups on the subjects extended up to 2 years after the study. 83% of the subjects felt the experience was of lasting benefit, 88% of the subjects felt that it gave them a great understanding of themselves and others, 78% thought it was the greatest thing that ever happened to them, 83% said it gave them a new way of looking at the world, and 77% stated a transcendental experience beyond their usual comprehension.[3]
In Betty Grover Eisner’s book Remembrances of LSD Therapy’s Past, she outlines her years of clinical research revealing LSD’s powerful ability to treat psychoneurotic patients.
“Of the 22 subjects in the study carried out at the Brentwood V.A., five subjects were neuropsychiatric hospital patients and 17 were volunteer outpatients. Problems ranged from depressive states to borderline schizophrenic patients in the hospital. Our improved rate was just over 72%, as judged by the two doctors, the patient, and the individual closest to the patient. Follow-up interviews were held over periods ranging from six to 17 months, continuing success in behavioral adaptation being the criteria of improvement. For instance, one of the “non-improved” categories, a hospital patient, was cured of his alcoholism, the reason for his admission, only to become a compulsive gambler two years later. The rate of improvement was 16 out of 22 patients.”
Eisner goes on to describe one specific subject from the experiment who suffered from severe alcoholism and who experienced a drastic change in behavior,
“Probably our most dramatic patient was an alcoholic who had been hospitalized 23 times for bouts of drunkenness during which he usually became violent. J.D. had seven LSD sessions with discussions in between when he requested them. He improved to the point of being discharged from the hospital and has never been rehospitalized — some 35 years later (although, he did drink again). His weekly productions in the art clinic are a fascinating record of the drama of his recovery, although they do not picture the event which made his recovery possible: the abreaction of an incident where he had been captured by the Germans in World War II and had to kill two Germans in order to escape and return through enemy lines to his own Air Force unit.”
This kind of research is substantial considering that there are currently hundreds of millions of people in the world that are affected by alcohol dependency or abuse. Psychedelics, such as LSD, allow its user to gain a new awareness from which they are able to understand their thoughts and behavior like never understood before. Eisner goes on to discuss another remarkable schizoid patient who was treated with LSD,
“We gave the patient a series of LSD sessions of gradually increasing dosage and walked him past his psychosis so that he was able to be discharged the following month. Again, we have a record of his progress in the pastel drawings he did each week. This was a schizoid patient who was almost impossible to tolerate until he was under LSD, and then he could be related to. He had been unable to get a job or to maintain a relationship, but after 16 LSD sessions, he was able to do both. However, evidently we didn’t drain the reservoir of his hostility enough during his sessions. Incidentally, it was interesting to note how LSD lowered an individual’s barriers enough to make the person possible to relate to. No matter how unpleasant or hostile before, all patients were “lovable” once the LSD was working strongly.”
It’s curious that LSD was classified as a Schedule I drug under the Controlled Substances Act, deemed to have a high potential for abuse, no legitimate medical use in its treatment and a lack of accepted safety for its use under medical supervision. There are no documented deaths from chemical toxicity of LSD; the recorded deaths are a result of behavioral toxicity.[5][6] The CIA was using LSD for mind control testing in the 1950’s as part of a now declassified program titled MK-Ultra, and rumours quickly spread that the government wanted to conceal the power of psychedelics for their private use only. The following statement is from a DEA publication,
“Although initial observations on the benefits of LSD were highly optimistic, empirical data developed subsequently proved less promising … Its use in scientific research has been extensive and its use has been widespread. Although the study of LSD and other hallucinogens increased the awareness of how chemicals could affect the mind, its use in psychotherapy largely has been debunked. It produces no aphrodisiac effects, does not increase creativity, has no lasting positive effect in treating alcoholics or criminals, does not produce a ‘model psychosis’, and does not generate immediate personality change.”[5]
But the studies state otherwise. For example, recent clinical studies revealed that patients suffering from an idiopathic disorder called “cluster headaches” could be treated with 2-bromo-LSD, an analogue of the hallucinogenic form. [7] Cluster headaches, sometimes referred to as “suicide headaches” because of the almost unbearable pain they cause sufferers, usually involve just one side of the face; patients often liken the pain to someone trying to pull their eye out for hours. They can occur in bouts lasting many weeks, with several attacks a day. The study presented the data of six patients with severe cluster headache who were given BOL once every 5 days for a total of three doses. All patients reported a reduction in the frequency of attacks, and five patients reported having no attacks for months afterward.[7]
According to an analysis of over 130,000 randomly chosen people, the use of LSD and other psychedelics does not increase a person’s risk of developing mental health problems.[10] The study was conducted by the Norwegian University of Science and Technology, and the results found that significant correlations existed between psychedelic drug use and fewer mental health problems.[10] The researchers found that lifetime use of psilocybin or mescaline and past year use of LSD were associated with lower rates of serious psychological distress; lifetime use of LSD was also significantly associated with a lower rate of outpatient mental health treatment and psychiatric medicine prescription. Recent clinical trials have also failed to find any evidence of any lasting harmful effects of psychedelics. So the black and white government fear-mongering films were just that after all, propaganda.
Stanislav Grof, another famous psychedelic researcher and author, suggests that psychedelics may offer a solution to the global crises currently affecting our planet,
“In the last few decades, it has become increasingly clear that humanity is facing a crisis of unprecedented proportions. Modern science has developed effective measures that could solve most of the urgent problems in today’s world–combat the majority of diseases, eliminate hunger and poverty, reduce the amount of industrial waste, and replace destructive fossil fuels by renewable sources of clean energy. The problems that stand in the way are not of economical or technological nature. The deepest sources of the global crisis lie inside the human personality and reflect the level of consciousness evolution of our species.
In one of my early books I suggested that the potential significance of LSD and other psychedelics for psychiatry and psychology was comparable to the value the microscope has for biology or the telescope has for astronomy. My later experience with psychedelics only confirmed this initial impression. These substances function as unspecific amplifiers that increase the cathexis (energetic charge) associated with the deep unconscious contents of the psyche and make them available for conscious processing. This unique property of psychedelics makes it possible to study psychological undercurrents that govern our experiences and behaviours to a depth that cannot be matched by any other method and tool available in modern mainstream psychiatry and psychology. In addition, it offers unique opportunities for healing of emotional and psychosomatic disorders, for positive personality transformation, and consciousness evolution.”[8][9]
A New Era of Healing and Therapy
It is clear that psychedelics may offer a solution to many ailments and trauma’s suffered by the general population. Furthermore, just as Stanislav Grof stated, the greater picture of ecologic and social crisis that is currently destroying our planet and stunting the evolution of the human species is more likely the external reflection of our unexplored and wounded consciousness.
Thankfully, in the last decade, psychedelic research has been ignited once again, as the government has begun approving controlled clinical trials. Scientists, who at one time had their careers silenced if they brought up psychedelics in the workplace, are now being provided the freedom to explore the medicinal applications of drugs like LSD, MDMA, psilocybin, DMT and mescaline.
There has been a shift in the general understanding of entheogenic compounds like LSD; we are doing our own research and deciding for ourselves what is “dangerous” and what is not. We are looking inwards to heal, rather than turning to the common vices such as alcohol and the biggest killer of them all, pharmaceuticals. Sacred planet medicines such as ayahuasca (which contains the potent psychedelic DMT) are also gaining widespread attention in the Western World and are leading the way for us to gain deeper understandings of ourselves, our connection to the each other, and the planet.
All that said these things need to be treated with respect and not taken lightly. While they don’t offer a ‘heal all’ solution, they may be useful in the right settings.
As more barriers and limitations are lifted from the scope of scientific research, we will continue to see new innovations and revolutions in fields such as medicine, holistic health and psychotherapy.
References:
1.) http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/235827?uid=3739448&uid=2&uid=3737720&uid=4&sid=21102880846417 (LSD Before Leary: Sidney Cohen’s Critique of 1950s Psychedelic Drug Research)
2.) http://www.lycaeum.org/research/researchpdfs/0908.pdf (The Use of LSD In Psychotherapy and Alcoholism)
3.) http://www.amsciepub.com/doi/pdf/10.2466/pr0.1964.14.1.111 (LSD: Therapeutic Effects, Stanford University Study)
4.) http://alcoholismstatistics.net/ (Alcoholism Stats)
5.) http://web.petabox.bibalex.org/web/20011116091659/www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/lsd/lsd-4.htm (DEA publication about LSD)
6.) http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1011615-overview (LSD Toxicity Reports)
7.) http://news.sciencemag.org/brain-behavior/2011/06/lsd-alleviates-suicide-headaches
8.) Grof, Stanislav (1998). The Cosmic Game: Explorations of the Frontiers of Human Consciousness. SUNY Press.
9.) Hofmann, Albert (1979). LSD: My Problem Child. L.P Tarcher, Inc.
10.) http://reason.com/blog/2013/08/21/lsd-other-psychedelics-dont-drive-you-cr
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Thank you for this wonderful article. I have had several personal experiences with LSD and must say that it has truly changed my life for the better. Some of my most enjoyable and profound memories were with the guidance of this powerful substance. I personally feel like LSD strips away all the masks and ego that we project on an almost constant basis and really allows you to face yourself at a deep and incredibly lucid level.
The shift in perspective from this is amazing. LSD really helped me see the world clearly and understand myself and those around me much better. I appreciate nature and the world around me so much more, seeing it with wonder and fresh eyes, always wondering how I could miss grandness of it all during my normal state of being. Genuine interaction with friends and loved ones on LSD is one of the best things I have ever experienced by far in this life! The joy, laughter, freedom, appreciation, and insight that can be experienced in the right environment most certainly is worth it in my opinion.
If the whole world took a dose at the same time, we’d fix most of the world’s problems within a week 😉
That being said, LSD is a substance that must be treated with respect and care, for it is truly powerful. It should not be taken lightly, for depending on its strength, the emotional state of the recipient, and the changing environment, everything can be magnified and intensified tremendously! Bad trips are definitely possible, as are amazing trips. So awareness and caution are definitely necessary when experimenting with this substance.
I have learned to always respect the power of psychedelics, for if you are not prepared or arrogant, they can teach you a humbling lesson. I sincerely believe that some of these substances can provide assistance and help to millions of people who are seeking guidance and a deeper answer to their problems. Thank you for sharing this important perspective and awareness, Jeff!
Brilliant comment!
I agree with you 100%… could have written the exact paragraphs
I consider this as a viewpoint (which I openly propose as having a deep symbiosis with my personal world view), that what governments/leaders etc fear is that through psychedelic usage, the population would become more aware of spirituality coming from within, and less reliant on organised religion. And organised religion is of course is a major “Cash-Cow” for weapon manufacturers and financiers.
If every person on the planet was to find the answers the seek inside themselves, Catholicism, Judaism, Islam and the rest, would cease to exist overnight. The world would be at peace, and the more fundamentalist/radicals (Afghanistan, America etc) would slowly emerge from the false cocoon of debt, once free of funding their exhorbitant war-machines.
Did you know that the Nazis used LSD as a way to splinter a person’s mind to create multiple personality disorder? Does this sound like a drug to mess around with? Google “mk ultra lsd” and find out about a dangerous mind control program used by scientists too create sleeper assassins and spies who do not even remember killing or stealing or commiting a crime because their brains were splintered using what? LSD.
LSD-Short and Long Term Effects
Hallucinogens, such as LSD, make you unaware of and indifferent to your surroundings, causing you to be an unsafe driver. These drugs cause you to see and hear things that aren’t there, messing up your ability to detect danger and make good decisions. These drugs can make you feel like you have super strength, causing you to be aggressive behind the wheel.
When not driving, this is what hallucinogens can do to you:
Magic mushrooms cause relaxation and slight mood changes. Large quantities can cause stomach pain, nausea, and vomiting, or shivering.
LSD users have strong feelings of anxiety or fear. Some users feel like bugs are crawling on their skin. Flashbacks are common with LSD and may occur even years later.
PCP users may unintentionally injure or even kill themselves because the drug eliminates all sensation of pain. PCP users become very angry, uncontrollable, and unbelievably strong. They also may develop schizophrenia. PCP’s effects remain long after drug use ends, and flashbacks may occur even years later.
Short-Term Effects: Increased heart rate, Increased blood pressure, Heart failure, Abnormal, rapid breathing, Lung failure, Changed emotional feelings, Confusion, Disorientation, Suspiciousness, Mixed-up speech, Loss of muscle control, Meaningless movements, Irrational actions, Violent behavior, Distorted reality, Aggressiveness, Distorted sense of time and space, Sense of relaxation and well-being, Nausea and loss of appetite, Chills and flushing, Shaking, Poor coordination, Distorted body image, feeling of floating or out-of-body experiences, Dilated eyes, Seeing things that aren’t really there, Unpredictable trips, which can be pleasant or a nightmare, causing panic
Long-Term Effects: Flashbacks weeks, months, or even years after the drug use, Flashbacks may be set off by using other drugs or by physical exercise, Flashbacks may be pleasant or a living nightmare, Most flashbacks last a very short time, only a minute or two, Decreased motivation, Prolonged depression, Increased panic, Impaired memory and concentration, Possible severe mental disturbances, Psychosis, Increased delusions, Bad trips may last hours, weeks, and even months
You’ve never taken a hallucinogen, then, I take it?
Ruth… You need to find a way to relax…When is the last time you had a really pleasant Orgasm? Or took a random trip, where you met great people, and tasted some incredible food for the first time?
Sure, Hallucinogens can be dangerous, but so can a plugged up toilet, or a flat tire.
I will say, for myself, that I have eaten Mushrooms a few times… And it has changed my perspective about things in my life a profound way.
No… I am not a couch potato pot-head… I am a successful professional, with 3 kids to survive me, a host of friends in multiple towns and countries, and abundant love to share. I am not some broken down druggie…
I would put LSD/Mushrooms in a class of dual purpose drugs. Yes, there is a recreational component… but the personal journey, emotional, psychological aspect of it is what I truly seek. It is eye-opening, and inspirational…
…
Therefore, Dear Ruth… I beg that you take one chance in your life. Something a little more dangerous than going out on a winter day without a coat. Try something truly different. Go speak to people to have taken LSD, and perhaps try it for yourself.
Your fear-mongering reply is useless. A repetition of propaganda created elsewhere. What is YOUR opinion about LSD… don’t tell me somebody else’s.
Have a superb day.
May it be filled with wonder and magic… may you wake up happy, and go to sleep happier…
Cheers!
Sadly I believe you missed the point entirely. Anything the gov’t uses to control the mind is something you should avoid & pay attention to. MK Ultra is real and still being used. If you wish to have children and do drugs on the side, then justify this with a Facebook bumper sticker in your mind about being “cool and chilling out”, that’s on you. If you think doing drugs when you are a parent is responsible, that’s on you. I fear for your kids when an adult tries to call selfishness, a “good” thing. Is this the best you can do to make an intelligent point about the dangers of LSD?
For ex-“In 1955, on behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) project MKULTRA, former Federal Bureau of Narcotics officer George White rented a three-story building on Telegraph Hill in San Francisco. For the next ten years, the CIA paid prostitutes to lure men to this location and surreptitiously dose them with LSD or other psychoactive drugs. Known as “Operation Midnight”, this project was one of several exploring LSD’s potential use as a mind control tool by the U.S. Intelligence Community”.
“Projects ranged from dosing individuals with LSD to influencing entire societies through planting false news stories or covertly shaping art and culture.1 The perception-altering properties of LSD and other psychoactive drugs fit well with the CIA’s agenda. The CIA focused on three potential applications for psychoactive drugs: “truth serums” that could be used during interrogation, drugs that could induce amnesia, and brainwashing techniques that could create what is often described as a “Manchurian Candidate” (after the popular 1959 novel). In fiction, a “Manchurian Candidate” is someone who has been brainwashed to carry out covert actions such as assassinations or sabotage against their will, without having the awareness that anything is amiss.
In pursuit of these goals, MKULTRA scientists investigated dozens of psychoactive agents, including psilocybin, bufotenin, scopolamine, DMT, amphetamines, barbiturates, cannabis, and cocaine. They particularly focused on LSD, funneling hundreds of thousands of dollars through covert channels into LSD studies at clinics and hospitals. Much of the basic research into LSD’s pharmacology conducted in the 1950s was funded by either the military or the CIA. By 1952 Boston Psychopathic Hospital alone was receiving $40,000 a year for such studies, overseen by LSD researcher Dr. Robert Hyde.”
If you are the kind of person who enjoys living in a fantasy drug stupor from time to time but pretends to be a “good parent”- at least be educated about where your chill out drug came from and how it has been used to falsify reality so you know what you are talking about. Then when you condone this drug and perhaps even tell some kid its fine to take it now and again- when they ask you an intelligent question, you might be able to provide an intelligent answer.
Clearly… we disagree.
Good luck on your journey.
Regards,
So wait a second… you’re saying that because this MKULTRA program happened to utilize psychedelics for their aims… that these drugs are INHERENTLY as dangerous as you are touting.
Listen, just about anything in this world can be used in both a good way and a bad way. Take religion, CAN be used to empower encourage the betterment of self in a community, and CAN be used to manipulate and control.
Psychedelics… CAN (apparently) be used in some clandestine operations to mess with the psyche… CAN be used in the right SET and SETTING for deeper personal development and insight.
Even if this MKULTRA stuff is in fact true, which it very well may be, I don’t know much about it (and to be honest I don’t think you do either as it seems like the post of someone reaching out for some sort of info for their confirmation bias and then posting a page from wikipedia, but if you are some MKULTRA historian by all means correct me), the reason that they would have any success is because of their psyche stimulating effects.
You are coming at this from some angle that the government controls the individual psychedelic experience of every single person… but its actually so funny because the exact opposite can happen when your mind is freed and begins to question some of the fundamental “truths” that we are fed by the government and other organizations.
I’m a neuroscience and psychology major, I HAVE experienced a bad trip with what you are describing. The words SET and SETTING have immense weight in the psychedelic. Both of the “bad trips” which I had… something was off in either my SET (mindset/biology i.e. was I grieving? was my life stable at the time? was I drunk when I did the psychedelics?) or SETTING (who am I with? where am I?) that I can pinpoint in both experiences.
Psychedelics are not harmless at ALL times. All have a level which is toxic… just like tylenol… just like alcohol. The answer is educating your self and mitigating risk. Interesting to note… one of the biggest causes of impure drugs which can objectively harm people/cause death is actually a direct result of prohibition because when there is a lack of quality control, like you would have at a beer factory, or any other pharmaceutical factory, unscrupulous individuals can use unsafe cutting agents to thin out their product so they can increase their profits.
Concluding though… psychedelics are not for everyone. I would never force a psychedelic on someone and to be honest I don’t think everyone can handle them. And if you have never done them thats cool, you don’t have to… what I object to is blatantly ignorant fear mongering that is not rooted in the actual neurobiological data that we objectively have and know about. It would help your cred a lot more if you cited some papers from PubMed instead of the results of some shadowy wikipedia page.
Regards
No- nothing came from Wikipedia. The info was released due to the freedom of info act and the covert op programs have been available to the public. Seems to me that anybody who says LSD is dangerous, impairs your judgement and sets a poor example for kids is the bad guy here. Ok- so be it. You want to condone this drug which has been especially chosen to create multiple personality, brainwash a person and control their will free? Go ahead. I’m just expressing my opinion. There is a reason why the consequences of drug use often include marital problems, the degradation of the family, and depression.
I just could not resist…
Waterboarding is also used by interrogators for nefarious purposes.
Ruth: I am sorry to inform you, but drinking water is off limits to you. So is sugar, caffeine, and just for you: dopamine.
Your connecting the dots over a substance “discovered/found” and one group’s (mis)use is a flawed use of logic.
As for setting an example for kids… I want my kids to know that I have challenged convention, and questioned my beliefs at any given point. Whatever life they live, I hope I taught them to live it fully.
Ruth: go watch “Happy” by Roko Belic.
I do hope that after you recovered from being very upset with me, you give my words (and those of other posters) some thought. I hope some of it sips in… perhaps it already has.
It is clear you are willing to learn… otherwise, why visit “Collective Evolution” in the first place.
I hope your life journey is full of love, amazement, and discovery…
Go read the works of David Deida too… great author. (“Enlightened Sex” might be a good one for you)
Cheers!
Sure- I understand you perfectly. Doing drugs is a “good” thing for you and your children. Right. I don’t feel any need to escape reality by tripping. I don’t wish to tamper with my brain cells or experiment with chemicals. It’s as simple as that. And I surely don’t wish to drop LSD knowing it’s been used for mind control in covert black ops. I support your right to destroy your body any way you want. For me, it is not necessary.
If the “governments” used it for mind altering purposes, it must be strong enough to be used in other ways! You’ve contradicted yourself with your first sentence!
If something IS strong enough to alter the mind, than it can be used for good not just bad!
I’ve used LSD myself, and mushrooms and a hand full of other substances, I’m 30 years old, successful, happy, and on my way to more life! 90% of my ideologies and beliefs, and views of life have come from the experiences I had on LSD and a number of other drugs!
You are the definition of a hypocrite (I’m sorry to say) because you claim that if it’s used by the “Government” than it is bad, where you are keeping your mind in a closed little box that the very same “government” wants it to be!
You are so afraid of even considering what COULD be, or to look deep into yourself that you are openly supporting the very same government you claim did bad things with this drug!
If you have never tried something, you have NO IDEA what it does, because reading about something hasn’t ever made anything true!
I’m not saying LSD is a MUST, nor am I saying without it everyone is blind, but what I’m saying is you CAN’T put in stone methods by which people find their enlightenment!
Stop being a judgemental pessimist and open your eyes a bit… I’m sure if you took some LSD you’d definitely have a more open mind towards everything!
Much of the information you are quoting is false or misunderstood. You can’t really control somebody’s mind with LSD, it doesn’t work like that…
Nope. The facts released by the CIA speak for themselves – LSD has contributed to mind control. It is now public info- freely offered at any library.The gov’t has been sneaking LSD into people’s food and drink off and on since 1951 to observe their reactions. They put it in bread in a small village in France in 1951.
“On August 16, 1951, the inhabitants were suddenly racked with frightful hallucinations of terrifying beasts and fire. One man tried to drown himself, screaming that his belly was being eaten by snakes. An 11-year-old tried to strangle his grandmother. Another man shouted: “I am a plane”, before jumping out of a second-floor window”
“Mr Albarelli said the real “smoking gun” was a White House document sent to members of the Rockefeller Commission formed in 1975 to investigate CIA abuses. It contained the names of a number of French nationals who had been secretly employed by the CIA and made direct reference to the “Pont St. Esprit incident.” In its quest to research LSD as an offensive weapon, Mr Albarelli claims, the US army also drugged over 5,700 unwitting American servicemen between 1953 and 1965.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7415082/French-bread-spiked-with-LSD-in-CIA-experiment.html
More here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_u7hJufcpE
And more proof here: http://healthland.time.com/2012/03/23/the-legacy-of-the-cias-secret-lsd-experiments-on-america/
Since you disagree, please send the source of info which proves these documented experiments completed by dozens of workers and agents never happened.
ruth, you’ve obviously no experience with this stuff. i’ve done lsd over 70 times and i do not have multiple personalities, nor have i driven or done anything that could have potentially hurt anyone else. it is used to expand your mind and think creatively.
and PCP is is a totally different class of drugs, known as dissociatives. it should never be compared to lsd or any other serotonergic drug (like mushrooms). it’s like comparing a book to a carpet.
the unwanted physical effects are when you are coming up on the drug for the first hour to hour and a half. after that, they go away when you peak and you feel amazing.
copy and pasting a bunch of symptoms from an internet site is not going to accurately describe anything about this. sure, doing lsd every day for a few weeks can have negative effects (i have a friend who became paranoid schizophrenic but he was doing it daily and going to school and stuff on it) but that is outlining a small issue. and no, “bad trips” don’g last weeks or months. you can take one valium and it will kill any lsd trip (that’s what hospitals give you if you’re a trip newbie and freak out and end up there).
Ruth, the psychoactive effects of LSD weren’t discovered until April 16th 1943. So in other words right at the end of the war when things were turning against the Nazi’s. It was invented in Switzerland, a neutral country, so there is no way it could have got into Nazi hands, or in time for it to be of any potential use. So stop spouting lies and propaganda, it really seems easy for you religious crazies to do so.
LSD has been used by the CIA and other government agencies due to its powerful effects on the mind. That fact says more about humanity than it does about LSD, it isn’t the drugs fault, the fault there lies with humans! People shouldn’t be driving when using psychedelics, like they shouldn’t drive when they have been drinking. No psychedelics don’t cause you to become unaware of your surroundings. I’m not sure where you got that ‘LSD road rage’ connection from but it’s utter rubbish.
PCP is a very different drug to LSD, and for you to even lump them together shows how little you know of these compounds. PCP is a dissociate anesthetic, LSD is a psychedelic compound with absolutely no known fatalities due to physical overdose, so toxicity wise it is one of the safest drugs known. This I’m afraid is FACT, and I find this better then the lies and propaganda you latch on to. I wouldn’t recommend people dabble with PCP, LSD though used well I think has a tremendous capacity for beneficial effects and self improvement or even inspiration. I have done LSD around 80 times, and would consider myself a well balanced, happy, and fairly high achieving person, and count myself very lucky to have encountered psychedelics in my life time. The flashbacks thing is rubbish, I’ve never had a whiff of one. Flashbacks can occur in life with any sufficiently moving experience, drugs are not a prerequisite for flashbacks.
The source of this information is clearly very anti drug propaganda and you would be wise to view things with more objectivity. All drugs have the capacity to act as medicines, it is purely down to dosage and how it used used. There is large body of science that suggests LSD and other psychedelics help treat addiction, post traumatic stress disorder, ease anxieties of the dying, aid with therapy, and psilocybin has even been found to grow new brain cells and be able to cause long term positive personality change. Your very biased view completely overlooks all this, so please try and educate yourself.
You said “There is large body of science that suggests LSD and other psychedelics help treat addiction, post traumatic stress disorder, ease anxieties of the dying, aid with therapy, and psilocybin has even been found to grow new brain cells and be able to cause long term positive personality change.”
Prove it- if its so large, go ahead and put the research here so it can be reviewed.
Ah so you are wanting some hard evidence now instead of making up lies about non existent Nazi-LSD experiments, how refreshing. What is it though about Christians not being able to use google and do their own research?? Encountered this problem before.
“Ignorant people get what their foolishness deserves, but the clever are rewarded with knowledge.” – Proverbs 14:18 😉
Well it isn’t my job to have to educate you, after all you do have google at your finger tips. But I’m going to go with the evidence science brings to the table on this as oppose to your extremely biased, ignorant and one sided opinion.
Article on LSD and addiction, with links to research papers:
http://www.nature.com/news/lsd-helps-to-treat-alcoholism-1.10200
Big meta analysis of LSD and alcoholism studies:
http://jop.sagepub.com/content/26/7/994.short
A huge study with over 130,000 participants, looking at psychedelics and mental health, finding no link between psychedelic use and mental health issues, and in fact LSD users appeared to use less psychiatric visits or pharmaceuticals.
Study looking at psilocybin, finding a capacity for long term positive personality change and feelings of well being and life satisfaction:
http://jop.sagepub.com/content/25/11/1453.short
Psilocybin and neurogensis in the brain:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23727882
Ibogaine and addiction:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0740547294900493
Ayahuasca study, finding lower levels of mental issues and improve well being and life satisfaction:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02791072.2009.10400530#.UovR3OK7Tsc
Pilot study looking at psilocybin and terminally ill patients with end of life anxiety:
http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/errors/404.aspx?aspxerrorpath=/cgi/reprint/archgenpsychiatry.2010.116v1.pdf
This is just a tiny handful of what is out there on the research…there are MANY, MANY more studies looking at the various beneficial facets of psychedelics, and a good number under way or in the pipeline…google is your friend!!
Of course there’s nothing wrong with asking one to back up their opinions- unless you are afraid of the truth or plan on falsifying the info discussed. I see you cheated right off the bat by substituting data on the wrong drug -Ibocaine. We are not even discussing- ibocaine. No- please do not stoop to these cheap tricks. Ibocaine is NOT L-S-D. I figured there wouldn’t be much to support an intelligent person being able to justify getting high on drugs. But you gave it your best shot;-) Another solution for alcoholics is to try some acid and that will solve your problem! Are you serious???
FYI:
Ibogaine is a naturally occurring psychoactive substance found in plants in the Apocynaceae family such as Tabernanthe iboga, Voacanga africana and Tabernaemontana undulata.
LSD:Lysergic acid diethylamide, abbreviated LSD or LSD-25, also known as lysergide (INN) and colloquially as acid, is a semisynthetic psychedelic drug of the ergoline family, well known for its psychological effects which can include altered thinking processes, closed- and open-eye visuals, synesthesia, an altered sense of time and spiritual experiences, as well as for its key role in 1960s counterculture. It is used mainly as an entheogen, recreational drug, and as an agent in psychedelic therapy. LSD is non-addictive, is not known to cause brain damage, and has extremely low toxicity relative to dose.[3] However, adverse psychiatric reactions such as anxiety, paranoia, and delusions are possible.[4]
Feel free to experiment with your brain by using chemicals. I merely offer my own viewpoint. You don’t like it? No problem.
Here are some people sharing their own personal experiences about how frightening and dangerous LSD is. I did not write it nor do I know these people. My opinion? Take care of yourself, your body, your brain, your soul and don’t pollute it with idiotic chemicals.
http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/lsd/what-are-the-risks-of-lsd.html
9,000 NAXIS CONDUCT MIND CONTROL USING LSD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZgi_-GpU3k
Stop feeding Ruth.
She says “Prove it- if its so large, go ahead and put the research here so it can be reviewed.”
Yet without doing any peer-reviewed journal research of her own at all, and just spouting the typical anti-psychedelic propaganda.
Why feed her? This is zealotism loaded with a MASSIVE confirmation bias and the world is full of it. Logic barriers and all.
Lets just be grateful that we have had our mind opening psychedelic experiences and leave it at that. Why spend time yelling at a brick wall. It will just suck you dry if you let it.
Always can spot the tag team….you folks cannot carry on an intelligent dialogue so you take turns at the responses.
The video I sent shows real people giving real testimonies about horrible effects they had while on LSD. No comment from the team? ok. Talking in the 3rd person- this is right up there with gang stalking. I think my point has been made and my opinion has been given. Although I follow the gospel of Jesus and not the popular new age, modern, anything goes thinking, I believe I have the right to share.
May the Lord Jesus Christ cover this website and every reader with the precious blood of Jesus and may all who have ears to hear Him be truly blessed.
“May the Lord Jesus Christ cover this website and every reader with the precious blood of Jesus and may all who have ears to hear Him be truly blessed.”
…and we are being called the crazy ones here!! The irony, it burns! it is interesting but I have noticed that religious types seem to be incredibly threatened by the psychedelic experience. I think this is because it may make them confront doubts about their faith in a very profound way, and rather have their faith tested, they prefer to label it the work of Satan and devilry (worries me that there are still human being out there than think like this or believe in such nonsense).
Yes sir- they called Jesus crazy also and all His disciples so I am in the best company I can ever be in. It is written that a relationship with Jesus is spiritually discerned so I do not fault anyone for either criticizing my beliefs or calling them whatever they wish. You cannot know Him unless you ask Him into your heart in humility.
So- you can take your LSD and find your spiritual meaning in a drug made of chemicals.
And I have found my spiritual joy, salvation, love, peace and power through the only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ. He is real.
Hi, Ruth!
Your response to me is “true” and from your “heart” and I fully understand your “viewpoint!”
btw…”BELIEF” IS a good starting point in learning about “…the Teachings of Jesus Christ!” The “link” I provided to you in my previous statement was NOT an attack…BUT, if you’d like to know what I was getting at, just add “@yahoo…” to my Screen Name and Email me! I’m always willing to discuss “Scripture” with anyone!
I truly meant what I said, “God Bless You, in the name of, Jesus Christ…Amen!”
Ruth you can’t flag me on discussing ibogaine, which does have psychedelic properties, when you lumped LSD together with PCP which is a completely different kind of drug.
You completely side stepped all the studies that prove beneficial effects, without doing any of your own research…you believe what you want to believe, very typical for God squad folk such as yourself, but what you believe isn’t the objective truth, it is just your highly ill informed opinion.
As I said before, LSD was being used in a negative context. That is no fault for LSD. That is a fault of PEOPLE. LSD is a very powerful tool, and like all tools it is how it is used that makes it beneficial or dangerous, the fault isn’t with the tool itself.
Thank you for quoting some Wikipedia info on what LSD is, I am aware of what it is and does thank you very much. You have an extremely blinkered, bigoted one sided view on things ruth, you ONLY look at the negative aspects without even considering the positive side, which is extensive. LSD has damaged people but it has also healed people and you completely neglect this. I’m glad people other than you aren’t running things or we’d be in the dark ages still. LSD hasn’t done me any hard, after around 80 experiences over a good number of years. In fact I am very thankful for my experience with this amazing compound, it has shaped ho I am in a positive way. I am a PhD student and would consider myself a high functioning person. If LSD is as dangerous as you seem to think it is should I not be totally insane and brain fried hitting my head against the wall of a padded cell in a mental institution??? And alas, I’m not doing that, how strange. I guess you can be wrong sometimes. The funny thing is that something like LSD would do you a lot of good and probably open your blinkered and closed little mind.
I see…..the “healing properties of LSD”….which is the silliest thing I ever heard. So let’s move beyond studies and cut to the chase. In my opinion- THERE ARE NO HEALING PROPERTIES IN DRUGS/CHEMICALS/LSD.
I sure hope that is clear. Escaping from life by trying to alter the chemicals in your brain will do a few things you may not like or want:
1. open the doors to evil and darkness
2. weaken your will and ability to control your mind
3. damage your brain
We obviously disagree that using chemicals is a “good” thing. I have no problem with this. I have said again and again- go ahead and use drugs. Its your body. It is you who keeps getting angry just over my opinion. I believe this is an example of a close minded judgemental person. If you talk the talk- shouldn’t you also walk the walk?
Hi Ruth! You can’t convince these “men of the World” about anything other than the World itself. They are “stuck” in their own arrogance. You and I, are NOT of this World.
Take Care and God Bless!
Hahahahahha wait our arrogance?
You two are NOT of this WORLD? As in you were not born and raised on planet earth?
Because we critically analyze data, and don’t pick facts that confirm OUR beliefs!?
Just digging the grave eh boss?
LOL!!! “Hit a nerve…huh?”
All “science” is attempting to do, is replace the long-standing “Religions” with a different “Religion!” NOTHING MORE…NOTHING LESS!
You refer to my “way of life” as a “Religion”…when in fact, it is NOT! My “way of life” is NOT based on any “belief” as you want to call it. It IS based on the “…teachings of Jesus Christ…” Who brought us the “Good News”, that we are ALL equal, in the eyes of God! (God/Heaven) The “prophecy” of the Messiah (I know him as, Jesus Christ, but, elsewhere in world, He is referred by “other” names) did NOT start with Scripture. It has been around for eons!
Of course, you would never even chance a thought of a more intelligent race of beings ever having been on this planet, now…would you? Nope! I didn’t think so!
Anyway, the Prophecy of Jesus Christ, “stands on it’s own” without the necessity of Scripture to keep it together. In fact, Scripture IS “convoluted”…to say the least. Which is “WHY” Jesus instructed us to NOT follow any “Religion!”
BUT, you already know this…don’t you!
After all, I’ve been saying it for quite some time…now!
Sorry if it “flew-right-over-your-heads!”
By-the-way…What I “know”, is NOT a “belief”…whatsoever!
On-the-other-hand…What you “think” you know…is really, just a “belief!”
Take Care and God Bless!
Yes, the dumbfounded nerve.
No, science is not trying to replace religion. Science is about working with DATA. Not FICTION.
And again your way of life is “not a religion?” It’s just based on the teachings of christ? Hmmm. So wait, so your interpretations of his message in a book are not rooted in belief? Help me to understand here.
And now you are talking about other intelligent race of beings? I’m an open minded skeptic, but the context you are bringing that into implies that you are stating that you as a human being are actually part of some other race of intelligent human looking like beings? Please clarify that if I’m misinterpreting that.
“By-the-way…What I “know”, is NOT a “belief”…whatsoever!
On-the-other-hand…What you “think” you know…is really, just a “belief!”
So what YOU “know” isn’t belief??? While simultaneously discrediting all facts, and discrediting ALLLLLL SCIENCE! How can you think that what YOU “Know” about Jesus isn’t belief? But again belief in Jesus, fine, whatever, believe what you want. But then to bring this baseless belief into a scientifically rooted discussion on the objectively measured benefits of certain psychedelics substances… and to say things like “ahhhh ya science isn’t modern, they had electric lightbulbs in the pyramids!”
Bobby, are you getting it? You make shit up, belief, then say it isn’t belief. Where is your proof that lightbulbs were in the pyramids? You don’t have any because you just make shit up, or hear about someone somewhere saying something, and if it fits your belief system then you say it.
Science isn’t about saying things that are based on nothing. Good science is about saying things with fact. Science is not the enemy of Jesus, science is the enemy of baseless, faceless, ideas. Critical thinking separates imaginary, or false ideas, from real world measurable ones. Can you show me some conclusive data regarding your statement about lightbulbs and electricity in the pyramids? I’m open to data. Period. If there is new data that supports an idea, I go with the facts and data.
So please, post a link to the data regarding the lightbulbs in the pyramids?
If you have no data, then it is made up, or a speculation. Fine, speculate, imagine, its all good, I love fiction, Harry Potter was a great book. But if it is not verifiable by data, it is a baseless statement i.e. fiction. Thats all.
Science is about separating fact from fiction by using measurable data.
It is really that Simple?
Did you know that Jesus actually had 6 wives on the side and a coke habit? Its not belief, i KNOW it. Nothing you can say to me can change that.
“hah!” You said, “…You make stuff up, belief, then say it isn’t belief. Where is your proof that lightbulbs were in the pyramids? You don’t have any because you just make stuff up, or hear about someone somewhere saying something, and if it fits your belief system then you say it…”
Since you are not even aware of these “simple” facts, it shows you don’t even keep up with your so-called “sciences!” And yet, you attempt to disqualify…ME? Sorry, it doesn’t work that way! What I said about the Pyramids is very well-known amongst those of us that keep up with the inquiry. Along the way, you will find that the “…prophecy of Jesus Christ…” stands on its own AND that it existed long before the writing of Scripture.
But, that’s okay, I don’t expect very many people have the ability to comprehend what I’ve written as it goes against everything you’ve come to accept as…FACT!
Let me ask you something. Have you ever had a problem that you simply “couldn’t” solve? After exhausting ALL your references, papers, books, professors, etc., you finally “gave-up!” ONLY, to awaken in the middle of the night with the answer?
Your answer did not come from your research, as you would have found it…right? So tell me, “Where did the answer come from?”
Of course, you will say, “It came from all the research YOU figured it out!” If so, then, “Why didn’t you figure it out…sooner?”
I hate to break this to you, but, the answer did come from “divine revelation”…whether you accept it or not!
How does it go, “With the faith of an acorn, you can move a mountain?”
Take Care and God Bless!
What does a late night insight have to do with God/Jesus/divine revelation bobby?? This simply a connection to the depths of your unconscious during sleep, which produces an alerted state with different brain waves to waking, and ironically does share some similarities to being under LSD. Many breakthroughs have happened in such a manner at night, when dreaming or in an altered state during the wee hours, one gains a different perspective on things (exactly the same thing applies to LSD), and this alone can catalyze breakthroughs, ESPECIALLY after having done lots of research into your subject.
The Pyramids – light bulb stuff sounds very fishy to me, it’s the kind of belief that the illiminati fan club would have. Even so that was a long time ago, so not sure what this issue which cannot be proved one way or another (a bit like God/Jesus) actually brings to the table. All the best in your journey. Remember to have a pinch of respect of science as it is entirely down to this and not Jesus that you are able to be a part of the discussion in the first place.
“…Even so that was a long time ago, so not sure what this issue which cannot be proved one way or another…” Ha, ha, ha!!! “Cannot be proved”…Really? NO! It’s been “proven” by your, “Oh so revered…scientist’s!” Which, unfortunately for you, YOU don’t keep up with…obviously!
As for your idea’s of “different perspectives”…get REAL! IF left to your “own” understanding, well, you can see what a mess this world is in…right now! On…second thought…NOPE! You CAN’T…SEE!!! You are too blinded by your own arrogance to allow anything or anyone change that which YOU BELIEVE…huh!
As Jesus said, “…they know not what they do…” (paraphrased), AND, true-to-form, you do NOT know what you DO!
Oh yeah! “Proof!” Find it for yourself! I had too! But, be careful, you might discover…I’m RIGHT!
Take Care and God Bless, Sam!
You didn’t answer the question.
“Since you are not even aware of these “simple” facts, it shows you don’t even keep up with your so-called “sciences!””
I’m an open minded skeptic. You are right, I am not aware of any simple scientific facts of lights and electricity in the pyramids. I humbly appeal to your vast knowledge.
Please, could you please share your source?
“Proof?” See my reply to, Sam! You’re like…”two-peas-in-a-pod!”
Totally ignorant to anything outside of your…POD!
Take Care and God Bless, “Smooth Sailing!”
The irony is amazing. I’m the the ignorant one, when you make wild baseless claims and when given the open opportunity to back them up, 2-3 times at least… you don’t.
And yes I check’d your reply, zero proof.
“What I said about the Pyramids is very well-known amongst those of us that keep up with the inquiry.”
Ah yeah a vague comment… ” You just aren’t in the know”.
Riiiiiiight bobby. Thats definitely proof. Okay. Well I’ll bite. How did you Pyramidally enlightened people come across this knowledge?
Bobby, you are only fooling yourself. And even then I don’t see how you can even believe what you are saying. Are you a troll?
OMG! Are you for real? The information about the Pyramids is very easy to find. ALL you have to do is…”LOOK!”
Obviously, that’s too much for you to do!
As for “trolls???” You’re the “troll!” I made a simple “comment” about some FACTS that I’ve come across over the years and are readily available to anyone that is interested. Heck, it’s here on the Internet! “PROVEN FACTS” by your scientific community
Here we are, how many posts later? You’re the one that can’t accept anything outside of “your” box! Heck, I never even asked you to accept it! Since these “discoveries” (and I use that word…loosely) were proven years ago, I have moved on. What’s even more interesting than what I’ve related to you, is that ALL this information about Quantum Physics, etc., is that the basic symbology used in these equations are showing up in ancient Temples, Pyramids, and other “Sacred” writings. It seems, that we are simply “re-discovering” sciences of the past, or “Lost Knowledge.”
Never mind…go ahead, dispute what I’ve written. No problem! You have made it quite clear that you are totally unaware of how the Pyramids were “lit” or “air conditioned.” It’s, Okay! You’re NOT supposed to know these things as it would “crush” your ego and arrogance as you realized just how ignorant “our” society truly is!
I’ll leave you with this:
The misinformation and misdirection that you and everyone else basis their existence on, keeps you blinded to the truth which is freely available, just for the “asking”…through “divine revelation.” Accessible through the teachings of Jesus Christ. Simple…huh!
Take Care and God Bless…late!
“The misinformation and misdirection that you and everyone else basis their existence on”
WHILE STILL NOT BACKING UP ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT PYRAMIDS!
You have zero proof. Bobby, you are caught. In a very transparent way, that you say baseless things.
Damn it! Find out for yourselves, for Heaven’s sake! No matter what I would present here, you’d do nothing but refute it anyways. The information is readily available if you really wanted to expand your horizons and understanding of just how much “knowledge” is being withheld from “us!”
The stuff about the pyramids is just the “tip-of-an-iceberg!”
As for comparing myself to “Jesus”…where the heck did that come from? I certainly didn’t say anything of that nature! BUT, if that’s what you got from it…better go back to kindergarten and learn how to read!
Do some investigation “outside” of what is written in elementary school books about the pyramids and you might learn something.
Post “proof” of what I’ve stated? Nope! It’s better for you to research it and discover this information for yourself so that you will come to the understanding that I have. “IF” you should pursue it, you will discover much more than I could ever explain.
I understand that it seems “as if” I am unable to present the evidence to back-up what I’ve written, but that is not the case. It is only through your own investigation that you will be able to begin to comprehend just how much of what we’ve taken for granted as “FACTS” is simply misinformation to keep us from discovering the “real” truth of our “existence/history.”
This is my last response to you guys, calling me a “clown” indicates that you have come to the “end-of-road” of being able to go any further than that which you believe. You’re “stuck” in this world. Heck, I’m stuck in this world! I “read” about the possibility of electric lighting being used in the pyramids many years ago (about 40+ years ago). It was just an interesting “idea!” However, recently (within the past 10 year?) it has become apparent that not only electric lighting, but also, a form of “electrostatic (ion?) air conditioning” was incorporated.
When you combine these “tidbits” of information with “other” bits and pieces of “lost knowledge”…the realization that we have been misdirected started to materialize. It is only through the investigation that this will become apparent to you, should you decide to research that which I have presented. I don’t mean to disrespect you in any way, it’s more of an attempt to “entice” you into discovering for yourself what I have learned over the years.
I believe, it’s the “process” of discovering these things, that will allow you to realize just how much we’ve been misdirected.
You guys are definitely intelligent, I have meant no disrespect, whatsoever.
Take Care and God Bless!
I expected this much from a teenager, but you are middle aged pulling this stuff?
“BUT, if that’s what you got from it…better go back to kindergarten and learn how to read!”
You said just like Jesus, you are not of this world. Okay. So am I less out of this world than you are in your mind?
“Post “proof” of what I’ve stated? Nope! It’s better for you to research it and discover this information for yourself so that you will come to the understanding that I have.”
No, it’s better for you so you can sidestep an argument closing trap. I’m an open minded skeptic.
“No matter what I would present here, you’d do nothing but refute it anyways.”
Given everything that you have posted on this page, more than likely that your “facts” would not be facts and would be easily de-bunked and questionable. “I.e. my group thats in the know knows because of divine knowledge”. So given your history of facts, I’m lead to believe this statement is correct, I would refute. But who knows, maybe you ACTUALLY have some legitimate data. Why not take a chance?
“I believe, it’s the “process” of discovering these things, that will allow you to realize just how much we’ve been misdirected.
You guys are definitely intelligent, I have meant no disrespect, whatsoever.”
And then these last two statements in isolation, actually seem insightful, but then you look at everything else you have posted, and not only is extremely ironic that YOU are talking about misdirection, but you have been disrespectful/judgemental repeatedly.
But you are right Bobby, I’m done with this.
But Bobby, as an individual who says things without factual basis and preaches them as truth, I can see how you would be threatened by the idea that what you believe in regarding baseless statements might actually be able to be proved wrong. I’m not saying there was no Jesus, or no God, science can’t disprove either. Believe what ever you want about the nature of this reality or the next life thats fine. By all means.
But don’t bring baseless belief into a scientific discussion and say its fact. It’s simply wrong. You are wrong.
Talking about our arrogance while being condescending and judgemental yourself? Which world are you from? Where a belief of any sort is automatically fact?
Good science starts with facts, and draws conclusions from the data.
Your way of thinking, start with a belief, cherry pick facts (what you perceive as facts, which are usually not hard facts, but heresay or something that you want to believe as fact) that fit your chosen belief on whatever the relevant topic is, and ignore or discredit anything that doesn’t agree with your chosen belief.
This is the anti-thesis of critical thinking. “but ALLL SCIENCE IS CORRUPT COMPANIES! ALL OF IT!”
Hahahaha. Have you ever even tried any of these so called “drugs?” Or do you just listen to every single thing your told about them? LSD is one of the most beautiful and blissful experiences anyone can ever have the chance to go through, and I feel sorry for you reading about what you are saying. Think about how ridiculous a “flashback” is. It is a media thing. There is no such thing as flashbacks, or any negative health issues, and this is coming from a law school graduate that has taken LSD anywhere from 20-30 times a year to live my life to the fullest. You people have no idea what you are missing out on,and I feel bad for how you spend your entire life lisetening to what the government says about these drugs, instead of taking it upon yourself to see how truly LSD could change the world if everyone wasn’t too afraid to try it. It literally changes the way you see the world and the way you see other people. You will never be the same, but it won’t be from terrible flashbacks and spinal cord damage, it will be eternal bliss and happiness, and knowing that after tripping that hard and seeing the world from such an odd perspective was exactly what you needed to give you some clarity on this crazy ass planet.
Sorry, but the medicine was rewritten, biological tests in the laboratory are over, (90%)
No one can edit the unprecedented biological system, the side effects are evidence of this.
Medicine is not a science, no 1 molecule is known 100%: properties are unknown, even the totality is unknown.
solution: http://www.logicalwayhealing.com, without drugs and side effects and is cured within a logical time.The biological system accepts the treatment.
Ruth… please answer this one question:
Why does the Government’s missuse of LSD automatic lend the drug into a category substances never to be touched?
What about Mushrooms? Used by Indians and Natives for thousands of years… are those banned as well?
We are not arguing with you over the fact that the government used these substances for nefarious purposes… we are just appaled that you are simply not giving psychodelics ANY credit.
I explained to a friend one day, that if I had to summarize the end result of a mushroom trip:
It is like cramming 3 years of therapy in 8 hours.
Can you handle facing your fears, your uncertainties… Are you ready to see beyond the walls you built around the sores in your life? All that in about 8 hours? Not everybody can… And thus some bad trips will happen.
There is a “party” component to psychodelics as well… but I would give up the party, for the business side of this very powerful agent of change.
“life is always an open field… we build roads out of our fears.”
I am as much a Conspiracy nut as the next guy… and won’t trust my government… but your logic is flawed at its core… and what the other posters are trying to do is to get you to loosen up your line in the sand. Things are grey, way more often then they are black or white.
Cheers!
so far nobody who comments/disagrees with me here ever actually responds to my questions. the new commentor then throws out new questions and the trail of unanswered questions by others continues. the last comment said the gov’t did not use LSD for mind control…..where did he go I wonder after I posted numerous websites about it being quite true? I guess he is searching for a way to debunk federal doc’s… oh well.
you said: “we are just appaled that you are simply not giving psychodelics ANY credit.” pardon me but this is humorous to me. I think I have made it clear that I believe using chemicals of any kind to alter your reality is something I believe to be dangerous. LSD opens doors you may not know about if you do not spend time studying spiritual warfare. demons are real. satan is real. Jesus is real. we are in a war down here- in the spiritual realm.
if one opens the spiritual door by manipulating your psyche with drugs, you risk demonic control and attack of your mind and your soul. this is usually not something most new age, modern, atheist, folks can believe. they do not walk in the spirit with Jesus Christ so this is a rejected and ridiculed theory.
if LSD is needing some kind of positive credit, then why does it cause some to jump off buildings or harm another human being? this is what I am saying- you say LSD=good. I say look at the facts about LSD and see that many have died or hurt others when using your so called “good” drug. you never comment on this truth despite the facts.
as I said before- if you think taking drugs is “good” for you and “therapeutic” for you? go ahead. I don’t. I know better as I have seen how easy it is for demonic strongholds to form within people when they use drugs to escape reality and supposedly find truth. the only truth is in Christ and His word.
Wow… I am speechless.
Wasted my time… Clearly.
I reckon that suggesting you watch “religulous” is also a waste.
Damn… Wow… I am still reeling…. Trying to catch my breath.
Ruth… Have a great day… And a great life.
Mind blowing. The sad thing is I don’t even think Ruth is Trolling. I think she actually believes all of that stuff. Dam. It’s ironic because Ruth actually needs a trip the most. Mind built on nonsense.
Lets stop feeding her.
P.s. Shameless self promotion. Always down to chat. Psychedelic minded musician. @smoothsailing4u. See ya in the twitterverse.
I gave up TV in 2001.
“if one opens the spiritual door by manipulating your psyche with drugs, you risk demonic control and attack of your mind and your soul.”…is this a joke Ruth??? What utter rubbish!! See if you are of the types of people that actually believes this stuff I will find it hard to take anything you say seriously.
Whether you like it or not, and it may not fit in with your religious doctrine, but there is an ever expanding base of science or ‘facts’ to prove that psychedelics can and do help with a number of conditions and situations. I’m glad people like you are aren’t running things or else we’d be stuck in the dark ages!
On the mind control front, te fact that it was used for this by people says more about us than it does about the drug. It has also been used effectively to treat addiction and mental illness and other conditions, something you completely neglect to look at which is a very ignorant and blinkered view to have. Government agencies gave up using LSD for mind control anyway as it was far too unpredictable in effect.
It is very very rare that LSD has ever been involved with fatal accidents of that nature, alcohol has caused many, many more deaths from such events, propaganda vastly exaggerates any such stories (try and actually find some confirmed, proven examples). Also I don’t have much sympathy for someone who jumps off a building attempting to fly, why not try and take off fro the ground??? Anyone jumping off buildings is cleansing the human gene pool and showing natural selection in action, we should be thankful really.
“I know better as I have seen how easy it is for demonic strongholds to form within people when they use drugs to escape reality and supposedly find truth. the only truth is in Christ and His word.”
No you don’t know better Ruth, you think you know better, two very, very different things! It is so funny to me that you attack LSD for being a tool used for brainwashing by some people, and then you say something like this!! It is clear from you that you don’t even need drugs to brainwash people, organised religion seems to have done a very effective job in your case. I hope you wake up from your life dream of ignorance one day, all the best.
It is always a good sign when those who trust in Christ Jesus get attacked by folks such as yourself. Organized religion? No, nothing I said is related to that. The gospel of Jesus in nothing to do with religion. Jesus abhorred religion and said so many times.
If you cannot believe documented evidence of people killing and being killed on L-S-D, that’s not my problem. If you will not accept that L-S-D was and is used for black ops mind control, hey, you can stay in your own ignorance. These facts are easily accessible to anyone who wants Truth.
I am still waiting for that large body of info/facts which prove how “good and healthy” LSD is for a human’s mind and body. Checking out with drugs which alter your reality and your perspective is not much to brag about.
“If you cannot believe documented evidence of people killing and being killed on L-S-D, that’s not my problem.” So you choose to believe in nonsense while not believing in scientific evidence to support positive effects?? This is why religious zeal is a dangerous force, you can see when logic gets twisted enough people will do anything to support their misplaced beliefs. You may not think that Jesus is linked with religion, but the fact that he was Jewish, and looked to by Christians as the son of God, suggest otherwise! If Jesus ever existed, I’m not sure he’d approve of your way of perceiving things. Religion has led to the suffering deaths of many thousands, if not millions, so why concern yourself with something so utterly and incredibly trivial in comparison?
If you are not able to use google and do your own research to examine for yourself the positive effects of LSD (it won’t take you long) then this just solidifies that you have a MASSIVE confirmation bias, and you have interest in learning anything that would educate you, rather you prefer to remain totally ignorant of the bigger picture, which is a really poor attitude and one I think Jesus would not approve of.
Sorry, Sam, BUT, you obviously know NOTHING about, Jesus Christ!
Read and LEARN about Him before you say another word…PLEASE!
Jesus Christ, does not advocate following any…RELIGION! It is your ignorance along with the rest of the World that wishes to follow Religion that is WRONG!
Drugs are man made and those who do studies to prove them to be “good” are the very same ones who make the drugs. Feel free to do drugs and “get enlightened”. No- I do not believe in your studies about the “positive effects of drugs” since the funders and writers of such studies are big fat liars who run Big Pharma.
Religion doesn’t change hearts
-Jesus likened the religious Pharisees to a group of dishwashers who clean the outside of a cup while leaving the inside dirty.
-He said, “Now you Pharisees make the outside of the cup and dish clean, but your inward part is full of greed and wickedness. Foolish ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also?” (Luke 11:39-40). Jesus knew that a person can change his image without changing his act ( Matthew 23:1-3).
-He knew that religious credentials and ceremony cannot change the heart. He told one of the most religious men of His day that unless a person is “born again” by the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of God (John 3:3).
-Yet from that day until now, many of the most religious people in the world continue to forget that while religion can give attention to outward appearance, only Christ can change the heart.
Only Christ can change the heart
O.M.G., Ruth! ARE YOU SERIOUS? You actually believe what the C.I.A. and other “accredited” resources PRINT?
EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE READ AND BELIEVE IS NOTHING MORE THAN WHAT “THEY” (Powers That BE! for lack of a better description) WANT YOU TO BELIEVE! “WE” HAVE ALL BEEN BRAIN-WASHED AND MISDIRECTED SINCE BIRTH! ONLY NOW, IS IT BECOMING SO “BLATANT” that it’s not even funny!
At least, for those of us who can “still” think for themselves!
Take Care and God Bless, Ruth!
I believe real people giving their testimonies on how much they suffered when they got involved in taking LSD. I believe real gov’t workers who witnessed black ops programs and horrible experiments on people against their will. Yes- I believe LSD has been used to harm people since the 1950’s.
http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/lsd/what-are-the-risks-of-lsd.html#sthash.9zA9CZsf.dpuf
Well, you made a “FACTUAL” statement, finally! I agree with you:
“… Yes- I believe LSD has been used to harm people since the 1950′s…”
There is NO DOUBT in my mind that the government (U.S. and other’s) HAVE used LSD to harm people!
BUT, to say that LSD is in itself…”harmful?” NO!
In order to “prove” this, you’d have to be specific as the conditions, quantity, frequency, and many many other factors which you have NOT identified.
AND THAT is where your argument…begins and ends.
“Overindulgence” of ANYTHING…is BAD!
Take Care and God Bless!
🙂
The attached link only talks about the negative effects of taking LSD. I often experimented with LSD between the ages of 17-20, and it was some of the most enlightening years of my life!
I truely believe it helped to shape my personality and make me see the world in a different light. I apreciate nature, live life with more understanding towards others, and I can see through the facade that we are educted to comply with to keep us complacent.
Maybe I could of discovered these things without the use of LSD? However, I definately think it expanded my mind in a good way 🙂
38 yr old male, self educated, living abroad, working, happy and free 🙂
I have no doubt that when a person is on drugs, their reality is distorted and one can escape the truth. For myself my truth is Jesus Christ and I am free in Him. If you think drugs make you free, you will always need to rely on them to find more truth.
“AMEN, Ruth!!!”
This is spoken by someone who clearly has NO experience with psychedelics. They DO NOT allow one to escape reality and their problems…if you take them with that kind of mindset you well be in for a nasty surprise! Psychedelics bring reality into greater focus, and this is part of they reason why some people are uncomfortable with the experience, not everyone can face themselves or their issues. Jesus Christ is all well and good but it would be completely fair for me to call you deluded for believing in a fictional character when you are accusing people of being deluded for advocating the use of psychedelic chemicals (at leas the latter are real!!). “Judge not lest ye be judged”.
Look at this this way. Psychedelics are not an escape. They force you to see yourself for who you are.
In all the healing work I’ve done with my clients (no, there are no drugs involved), I’ve only met 1 or 2 Christians who actually embodied the belief system. They were connected to Christ and they felt whole. I would love that you were just like them, but the odds are stacked against you.
Sure, at the Final Judgement, you’ll have to face your life and what you have done. Can you look in that mirror now? Will it make you a better person or will it break you? Those who delve deep into psychedelics don’t do it because it feels good or helps them escape.
yes-I believe many MK ULTRA victims who tell the same story- gov’t programs used LSD and electric shock and severe abuse to traumatize them and split their minds. Its in the Library of Congress and you can read countless accounts of the abuse from LSD/MK ULTRA. If u can handle the truth that is.
I have to jump in again. Ruth you keep mentioning the MK-ultra as the corner stone of your argument.
People keep writing here the same thing, and I did a while back but it still isn’t clicking with you.
I’m going to spell it out for you with simple comparisons one last time.
Psychedelics are a tool, can be used for self improvement. Could potentially be used in aiding brainwashing. A tool is a tool, and because of free will, human beings have the choice for how they use it.
A hammer, can be used to put a nail in wood, can be used to bash a skull in. Is the hammer bad or wrong?
A phone, can be used to contact loved ones, can be used to contact people and scam them for their money. Is the phone bad or wrong?
A TV screen, can be used to show interesting and educating and entertaining things. Can be used to brain wash or show Snuff films (where a woman is killed after having sex/being raped on camera. Is a TV bad or wrong?
Pain medication, can be used to eliminate pain for someone who is constantly suffering. Can be abused. Is pain medication bad or wrong?
Coffee, can be used to generate alertness and focus. Is also addictive and can lead to dependence. Is coffee bad or wrong?
Alcohol, can be used with friends and family in lowering inhibitions and generally encouraging laughs and memorable (and sometimes lack of memory) times. Can also be used to intoxicate a woman to the point of unconsciousness so that she can be raped. Can be used as a perpetual fuel for addiction when seen in alcoholism. Is alcohol bad or wrong?
Psychedelics are a tool. When certain substances are used in the right set and setting, they can have positive effects. An example of the wrong set and setting would be strapped into a chair in an MK-ultra lab. That would more than likely lead to a bad experience. A right set and setting, stable individual who is looking to explore aspects of himself, or confront traumatic experiences with a different perspective, in a safe home with a sober friend watching, is a right set and setting.
Your example of psychedelics being used for ill does not concretely prove that they are bad in all situations.
Just like a hammer is not bad in all situations.
Feel free to visit http://www.maps.org if you are interested in actual scientific facts (not baseless emotional belief) about objective positive impacts that certain substances can have in real mental health conditions. i.e. PTSD, OCD, etc.
This has been written by a Brain, Behavior, and Cognitive Science Major (Neuropsych B.Sc.) at the University of Guelph, Ontario, Canada.
As I said- do all the drugs u want. And please go ahead and even exalt LSD as a “special tool of enlightenment” also if u want. But keep in mind this special tool for enlightenment which u say is “good for you” happens to also be a tool for mind control, confusion, split personality and how to create an assassin/sleeper.
What I think is bothering you is that you cannot deny all the true stories about how LSD has caused some to jump to their deaths and behave in insane, violent ways. If only you could somehow remove all that, maybe more people would be drawn to LSD? All I am doing is sharing the counterpoint- and saying that if u seek truth in drugs, you will never find it there.
Just because I do not agree with your point doesn’t mean I am deaf. Yeah- you have all beaten the point to a pulp. You believe drugs to be “good”. I don’t. Simple. No worries- we’re clear.
No I’m actually not in denial of the negative effects at all. In fact as someone who has personally experienced the negative effects a handful of times (including psychosis), I’m actually more aware of them then you are. Not to mention the NEUROSCIENCE background that I have. I have never once said that psychedelics are harmless. I would never intend to whitewash facts. That is wrong, and would lead to some bad experiences for people.
“All I am doing is sharing the counterpoint- and saying that if u seek truth in drugs, you will never find it there.” No thats not all that you are doing. You have repeatedly said that there is nothing to the experience and satan taints it or whatever you were saying.
and no you still don’t get it. You said “You believe drugs to be “good”. I don’t. Simple. No worries- we’re clear.”
Drugs just are. Its people that are good or bad. Its situations that are bad or good or suitable to psychedelic experiences.
Anyways ruth. All the best. As a former catholic/christian I hope that you eventually let go of your knee-jerk reflex to attack threats to your belief systems.
Have a good life
So you have had psychosis from doing LSD?
Quote: (” In fact as someone who has personally experienced the negative effects a handful of times (including psychosis), I’m actually more aware of them then you are.”)
That’s the first time that detail was mentioned…..hmmm. As for my belief that drugs are satanic, dangerous, open doors to demonic realms, & give up your free will? YES, YES and again YES. That is what I know to be true. That is precisely why Satanists use drugs on their victims and on their slaves. It removes their free will and allows them to be programmed and controlled. duh!
Since we sharing our opinions here- that’s what I believe. Only Jesus Christ will ever set anyone free.
Take it. Or leave it. If there was no truth in what I am saying, why do people get so very very reactive? If it’s just “religious” nonsense as you insinuate, who would anyone bother to continue to belabor the point?
God wisely gave each of us free will.
Last thought ruth
The reason people keep replying, is because you are confusing strong emotion belief with fact. You believe in something so much, so in your mind that makes it true, even when there is evidence to the contrary. You reject facts because you don’t believe in them. The tone of this back and forth would have been a lot different if you actually came with facts about the whole picture. And then you go off about satanists and mind control… (and now you will repeatedly tell me that its true, you’ve read stories about it, this stuff happens, and that again could very well be the case, its interesting though that you are open to these facts (MK-ultra, satanists) the facts that confirm your belief, yet you are closed to any facts which may contradict your beliefs. Especially ones published in scientific journals. Some believe what they want to believe I guess.)
And regarding my temporary psychosis, yes it lasted about 15-20mins. During the entire time I was aware of the hallucinations and what was happening, and that presence of mind, which any responsible psychedelic user has, allowed me to talk myself through it and remind me it was going to pass. Again psychedelics are not without risk or harmless. A friend who I had the mushroom experience with also had a weird time. The set and setting we’re off right from the get go. But you probably don’t care about any of those details anyways. I’m not actually an educated neuroscientist, i’m actually under the control of the local satanist cult.
regards
Imagine that- you just said something I agree with which is and I quote:
“Again psychedelics are not without risk or harmless.”
As for facts…well, open your Bible and begin to read about how God made everything. Look around and see the “facts”. I cannot help it if you trust men/scientists more than you trust the Almighty Creator of the universe.
You can keep your man made synthetic drugs- and all your science guys. Take a trip down lsd lane if u must!
I am here to share my opinion and the gospel of Jesus Christ who is so wonderful, and kind and merciful and He has given me peace in my heart beyond description. And I did not need a chemical drug to get there.
Oh and you did hear about my bad trip (i.e. psychosis (which means hallucinations, not becoming a psychopath which is probably what you are thinking)… assuming you even read my full response to you on November 11th. Right from the get go, saying the same thing, psychedelics aren’t without risk. But the risk can be substantially mitigated.
*Sigh*…we are running around in circles here. Ruth you state “But keep in mind this special tool for enlightenment which u say is “good for you” happens to also be a tool for mind control, confusion, split personality and how to create an assassin/sleeper.”…have you not just settled your own rather silly argument here finally?? That LSD and other psychedelics are tools and can be used for both good and bad, to heal and to maim, the thing that directs this is not their use itself but HOW and WHY they are used.
Firstly the benefits are backed up by SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE…i.e. this isn’t someone’s subjective, biased opinion (like yourself). However the negative reasons you list are either fictional or have been abandoned as potential avenues, with these drugs…and the human spirit…being simply too unpredictable and uncontrollable. To say that these drugs are simply bad is WRONG. It doesn’t matter about your opinion on this, for you are in the wrong…simple. To say these drugs are simply good and have no risk is also wrong. So the only reasonable, balanced and mature stance is to state “these drugs have the potential for good and bad, depending on how they are used, and by whom”. I find it strange that religious types are so threatened by these substances…are they not part of God’s work, or God’s plan also?? Do you think the Almighty was wrong to create them??
“…the benefits are backed up by SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE…” PLEASE! Scientific Evidence…REALLY?
Science that is funded by; controlled by; and, censored by…Pharmaceutical and Government Agencies! PLEASE! Every “scientific” FACT that we know of is being “changed” due to new research! AND, in a few more years, that research will overturn what is known today!
The “…teachings of Jesus Christ…” have NOT changed in 2,000 years AND, furthermore, Will NOT change in the next “Eternity!”
“BELIEVE” in your “science” IF that is your “choice!” When He returns, you Will be one of those “…crying, and moaning, like the World has never hear…” (paraphrased) realizing you made the…”WRONG CHOICE!”
The “MESSIAH” (I know him as “Jesus Christ”) came to Earth as a MAN and lived it as an “EXAMPLE” and was “Witnessed” by “men” (His Disciples) for you to Believe! Why is it so difficult for you to Believe the Word of these Witnesses? You “believe” the word of Scientists when they tell you “this or that”…right?
The Witness of the Disciples has never changed, even though their “independent” words were written at different times and large distances between them! Your “scientists” rarely do this. Instead, they “agree” that what they “see” is real…only to find that what they “saw” is NOT the truth!
Your “science” (and mine) is more “fictional” than any of the “…teachings of Jesus Christ!”
Take Care and God Bless!
Oh god, another one.
“Science that is funded by; controlled by; and, censored by…Pharmaceutical and Government Agencies! PLEASE! Every “scientific” FACT that we know of is being “changed” due to new research! AND, in a few more years, that research will overturn what is known today!”
Yes there is for sure corruption in research no doubt. but not all. Science is a method of obtaining data. Nothing more. There is good science and there is bad science. Good science makes conclusions of off data that is obtained. Bad science, makes up data, or fails to be good science because the scientists fail to be rigorous with their data. You make it sound like a bad thing that things change as we learn more. Yes our understanding of things changes and improves over time. Would you rather it didn’t? Would you rather not have a computer that you and I are chatting on? Would you rather have no TV, no internet, no phone, no medicine, no technology at all, no forms of transportation other than horses? At the root of the scientific method is trial and error. Edison failed a lot of times, but eventually he tweaked things enough and got some good results, i.e. the light bulb thats on in your room right now. As our knowledge base increases, and our tools for obtaining that knowledge develop, certain data from the past may come into question. With good science, we move forward.
Can you clarify for me, does the bible have directions for making penicillin? How about any form of telecommunications? Cancer treatment?
Regards
“IF” we were to live according to the “…teachings of Jesus Christ…” we would not need a lot of the “things” that you mentioned…PERIOD!
As for “devices?” YES! “IF” we had access to ALL that Scripture references! BUT, alas, we do not! “YOUR” academia, science, and governments, etc., have that information “locked-away!”
Case-In-Point: DEAD SEA SCROLLS — “How many were found?” As I remember, it was well over a thousand of them. How many have been released for scrutiny? Less than a hundred. “Why?” What information do they contain that the “elite” of this world don’t want us to learn?
Perhaps, the fact that there was “electric” lighting being used in the Pyramids? More than five thousand years ago! So, exactly “What” modern science are you speaking of? The use of electricity, sorry, but it’s NOT modern…It’s use has been around for longer than the written word has been.
I’ll tell you what “modern science” has done…It has produced weapon’s, and disease’s, etc., that do more “harm” than good for anything on this planet. AND, you know this as well as…I!!!
Now, tell me…What harm has the “…teachings of Jesus Christ…” ever done to anyone or anything?
NONE…whatsoever!!!
It is yours and everyone else’s, non-belief, that has caused harm!
LSD…the basis of poison gas bombs.
End of Story.
Amen Sam. There’s no point anymore though. Doesn’t matter how articulate we are, its not about fact based conclusions, and a friendly disagreement which I’m all for. Its a denial of objective fact, with a liberal sprinkling of religious rhetoric. No solution for the discussion at all. I’m out. And sam drop me a line on twitter if you got one @smoothsailing4u. Any other like minds in this chat do the same. This has been an epic article discussion. Over a month long lol.
No- I don’t believe LSD can or ever has or ever will be used for anything positive, good, healthy or enlightening. Hope that is crystal clear. Drugs are just an escape – if you want truth, Jesus the way, the truth and the life. You’d have to seek Him and know Him to realize He is quite real and sits at the right hand of God as we speak. I do not expect you to understand this but just saying Jesus is available to anyone who really wants to know Him.
well- there ya go, I am pleased to report I must not be able to attain your level of maturity;-) thank God for that!
quote: “So the only reasonable, balanced and mature stance is to state “these drugs have the potential for good and bad, depending on how they are used, and by whom “……………………….
hold on to your shorts, I’m about to say it again……I think drugs are a Bad thing. Not healthy, not helpful, and nothing good ever came from drugs.
feel free to carry on and take all the drugs you want.
I’m sorry bobby I’m not sure how and why you have come to think like this but your views or deeply ignorant.
“IF” we were to live according to the “…teachings of Jesus Christ…” we would not need a lot of the “things” that you mentioned…PERIOD!
The teachings of Jesus Christ provide a code of moral code to live by, a code with some admirable guide lines, but it is a moral code, nothing more.
“As for “devices?” YES! “IF” we had access to ALL that Scripture references! BUT, alas, we do not! “YOUR” academia, science, and governments, etc., have that information “locked-away!”
What on Earth have you been reading?? I’d put whatever it is down and pick of a basic science text book.
“Case-In-Point: DEAD SEA SCROLLS — “How many were found?” As I remember, it was well over a thousand of them. How many have been released for scrutiny? Less than a hundred. “Why?” What information do they contain that the “elite” of this world don’t want us to learn?”
Again, the last point applies here. This sounds like conspiracy nonsense to me, and really not worth the thought time.
“Perhaps, the fact that there was “electric” lighting being used in the Pyramids? More than five thousand years ago! So, exactly “What” modern science are you speaking of? The use of electricity, sorry, but it’s NOT modern…It’s use has been around for longer than the written word has been”
I’m sorry since when has the use of electric lighting been considered a “fact” as you put it?? And either way how do we know this?? Again, I question your sources.
“I’ll tell you what “modern science” has done…It has produced weapon’s, and disease’s, etc., that do more “harm” than good for anything on this planet. AND, you know this as well as…I!!!”
Modern science is the reason your drinking water is safe, you aren’t hungry, you have access to medicines, you have a comfortable home with central heating, and have a working computer with access to the internet so you can spout your views! Whether you choose to believe in it or not, you have a great deal to thank modern science for, and far beyond anything religion has given you or anyone else.
Now, tell me…What harm has the “…teachings of Jesus Christ…” ever done to anyone or anything?
NONE…whatsoever!!!
While the teachings of Jesus are noble, they are just a very small facet of the teachings of organised religion, which when interpreted by different people have led to crusades (‘holy wars’), witch burning, religious intolerance, extremism, terrorism and events like 9’11…so religious teachings have done humanity FAR more harm than good!
It is yours and everyone else’s, non-belief, that has caused harm!
As explained above, not true…if we could all caste off the shackles of religious ignorance we would then be truly free.
LSD…the basis of poison gas bombs.
Utter rubbish…this statement highlights a really profound level of ignorance on your part…I am noticing a pattern in that this ignorance tends to be correlated with a belief in Jesus Christ, and this in itself is a major harm you appear to be overlooking!
“…While the teachings of Jesus are noble, they are just a very small facet of the teachings of organised religion, which when interpreted by different people have led to crusades (‘holy wars’), witch burning, religious intolerance, extremism, terrorism and events like 9’11…so religious teachings have done humanity FAR more harm than good!…”
These are the Religious teachings of “man”…NOT those of Jesus Christ!
Thank you for pointing out how your “…statement highlights a really profound level of ignorance on your part…I am noticing a pattern in that this ignorance tends to be correlated with…” the lack of “…a belief in Jesus Christ, and this in itself is a major harm you…” ARE “…overlooking!…”
Your words, Sam…not mine!
You’re right, you have not read or can even understand how this world is able to misinform and misdirect you to the extent that it does. It HAS brain-washed everyone since childhood. However, there is a way to be enlightened and it is NOT through any kind of drug OR science. BUT, you will NEVER find it should you continue to keep your heart & mind “closed!”
Inherently, “you” know the truth and have already “accepted” the FACT of Jesus Christ for “WE” all live in the “…year of our Lord, Jesus Christ…” A.D. (Anno Domini)!!!
Take Care and God Bless!
Yes its well worth the trip !
“LSD has helped us win four Nobel Prizes, create the Internet, Unix and BSD operating systems which are the digital infrastructure of the electrical and communications grid and scientific and engineering platforms, and Apple and Microsoft personal computers.
It has helped us discover both the composition of our very DNA and multiply it, unlock psychotherapy in the treatment of anxiety and schizophrenia, cure migraines and cluster headaches for up to a year with a single application, cure methamphetamine addiction, cure alcoholism, cure childhood autism, and at less-than-psychedelic doses, and with a thousand times less material, it has lasted longer and is more effective than synthetic opiates in the treatment of pain.
It has opened new avenues of spiritual insight and understanding for millions, evolving human consciousness and enhancing creativity to accelerate the arts of music, cinema, medicine, photography, painting, architecture, literature, dance, nutrition, and invention. It helped divert the United States from using more oppressive mechanisms of control by catalyzing racial, gender, and economic reforms into a lasting impact during the mid-20th century.
Discovered by serendipity at the same time in our history as the atomic bomb. Soon classified as a compound considered illegitimate for human use, even though it comes from natural sources, is non-toxic and non-addictive.
In its crystalline form it is luminescent, and under a microscope looks like how one may experience it inner-visually.
LSD has been known to cause mental problems in people who have never taken LSD.
The experience of LSD completes the hemispheric energetic manifestation of the human body and mind, dekeratinizing the crystalline myofascial integrations of personal history and amplifying bioelectric transmission, facilitating a transformative space of body and a transpersonal mode of thought, whereby one can initiate new ways of attaining meaning, purpose and happiness.
It allows one to know of this mystery through a lens that cannot be seen, because it begins at the very core of the human being’s interface with the world, perception availed to the numinous, open to the aboriginal essence of self, illuminating the mission of our animal code and the destiny of the human race.
“How is it possible that a being with such sensitive jewels as the eyes, such enchanted musical instruments as the ears, and such a fabulous arabesque of nerves as the brain experience itself anything less than a god?”
There are no formative series of events, no intellectual rationale, no admixture of literature and sharp knowledges, that would allow the human being to finally feel the simultaneous culmination of self-realizing integration that one is unique, relative, embodied, creative, spirit, animal and divine.
This qualia makes it intimate and sacred, because it impresses upon the person a new genre of feeling that is unlike anything heretofore expressed from the self, and in a duration that is completely foreign to the usual cognitive modes and spectacular imprints of daily life.
When the world that you roll with your feet is no longer a labyrinthine sphere, we just may find that the simplicity of life is in the full presence of living our lives and on this land one thrives in this walk with patience and love.
You are more than you know and we are stronger than they say. You are marvelous. You are alive. You are eternal.
Remember”
” You are marvelous. You are alive. You are eternal.”………..May I ask you where you found this doctrine? If people are marvelous, why are they killing, mutilating, deceiving, cheating and otherwise acting so evil in this world right now? If what you say is true- the world would be filled with more marvelous people than not and we would have kindness, peacefulness, unselfishness and joyfulness. Not the case. Evil is up-humans are cooking other humans, even eating them in some cases. Children are being snatched away and abused and killed in record numbers and we have a new phenomenon- human trafficking.
Much of this ‘”evil” has been and is caused by religion and the divisions it causes…think the Crusades, witch burning, the Spanish inquisition, religious extremism and terrorism, and 9/11. So many terrible acts have been done in the name of God. If we could free ourselves of these religious shackles of ignorance, and open ourselves to the potentials of the psychedelic experience, all these barriers and divisions would fall away and we would realise we are all one, one species without division on an planet of many wonders. It is interesting why religious types are so threatened by the psychedelic experience.
You confuse religion with Jesus Christ- like most who do not know Him. He stands apart from religion and always has. But so many are brain washed into thinking Jesus is part of these corrupt organizations. As for being threatened by the truth in drugs/LSD? I find no threat in drugs or drug taking people. It is sad to think people must alter their brains with chemicals just find truth or be happy or grow or whatever. Jesus stands for more truth than most of us can handle because it is so loving and kind and merciful. And not of this world.
I do agree that Jesus’ message in particular was very positive, even if he was just a fictional character. If Jesus works for you ruth that’s fine, but he doesn’t for everyone, and if for others psychedelic agents work and provide a means of enhancing awareness of themselves, each other, the Earth and the universe, then I see this as a positive thing with regard their responsible use, and I think it is wrong to judge people for this. We are all individuals, no two of us alike, so different strokes for different folks.
Yes, Ruth! Very well put!
This article is soooo…cool!!! Let’s ALL just, “Get Our High On!”
RIGHT!!!
Well bobby ya never know, you may just learn something getting your high on, surely the undeniable fact that this substance inspired some great human minds means it has some good qualities, however you choose to view it (drugs are bad mmmkay, because the government say so, and they never get stuff wrong, or lie to us, and they love us very very much).
Make up your mind, Sam! Here I am agreeing with you and I get SLAMMED for that also?
lol
so…”finicky!”
Ha bobby well it sounded like sarcasm to me, and I don’t see my statement as a slamming against you, or anyone else, just something to bear in mind so we can have a more balanced overview.
lol No, you are right, it was a “bit o’ sarcasm!”
BUT, just a “bit!” Some of the people’s responses act as if this is the best thing they have ever done and are promoting the “use of” DRUGS!
I’m sorry, but, the use of DRUGS as a “recreation” is NEVER a “good thing!”
I prefer the “…teachings of Jesus Christ…” over everything.
Also, David Flowers, advocates the bodies ability of being immune to all disease’s which I find “very” plausible.
“IF” all it took was a “chemical/drug” to make us “more intelligent”…don’t you think we’d already be there?
I just can’t take it anymore… I am
Ruth and Bobby: Why are you in this site to begin with? Why do you bother? You have found your path, your way, your messiah, your answer for the beginning, and your question for the end…
Not just the article about LSD, but most of this site is dedicated to “unconventional” thinking. I will take a gamble here and make a generalization that 90%+ of the audience in this site are not religious at all.
We are not atheists, just not religious…
On that point, there was some argument about following Jesus as not being Religious, it equates to the same.
Thefreedictionary.com… Religious:
”
Having or showing belief in and reverence for God or a deity
”
If Jesus is a Deity to you, that makes you religious.
The question:
Why bother spending your time and energy with those of us who clearly do not agree with you?
I don’t want to argue with you. I don’t want to dissent your points. I would like to understand your motivations.
Many regards… And a happy happy new year!
(this is what I tell most people, I believe it to be a strong indicator of my belief system)
“May your life be filled with wonder, and love… Today, tomorrow, and always…”
Regards,
pF
Hear, hear.
“WOW!” For all your “intellect” you have no comprehension of the World around you! You refer to “science” as if it is the defining “word” for all things. You have a “belief” system which you and others “like” you have “dreamed-up” and then turn around and tell me that following the “teachings of Jesus Christ” is “RELIGIOUS?” Your arrogance won’t even allow you to what a hypocrite you really are!
“Happy New Year, 2014 A.D. (Anno Domini)!!!” Year of “our” Lord, Jesus Christ. Go ahead, reason it out…FACT of the matter is, YOU believe in Jesus Christ…ALSO! You are just like the “Pharisees” of old attempting to place yourself “higher” than everyone else.
Please, do yourself and everyone else, a favor. Learn “something” about Jesus Christ as you have NOT uttered a single TRUE statement about Him…yet!
You are quite simply WRONG bobby. Science is a method of experimental inquiry to find out more about the universe. It is build on evidence and data, and any claims must be testable so experiments can be repeated by others and so be proved or disproved. By its very nature, science is ALWAYS in motion, being constantly refined and expanded. The only constant is change in our universe which further adds to this. Religious doctrine is does not change, but this isn’t a good thing! It also lacks any evidence to support it, and this should be a source of alarm bells in any mind with a shred of objectivity. It is dogma that fails to evolve like the rest of the world, or the universe, it remains stagnant, backward and outdated and serves no good purpose today. Religion or theism, is simply the belief in supernatural deities, and you look to Jesus Christ as a religious figure, the son of God. Ergo, you are a theist…very simple. And no I don’t believe in Jesus Christ, I believe him to be a fabrication, even some of his messages were good. And I’m all for good messages but if people had any ounce of objectivity they would take anything the Bible claims with a hefty pinch of salt!! Why base your life on a Biblical fairy tale that supposedly happened 2,000 years ago and can in no way, shape of form be proved to ever have happened??Happy New Year to you too.
I wonder….What is the proof that atheism and/or un-belief in Jesus Christ is accurate and correct? where is their factual evidence that no God exists? it makes no sense.
I have a Holy Bible which contains info which when one applies it in real life- you will experience the truth of God’s word.
Atheists have zero proof that atheism is correct in it’s accuracy. They will criticize Jesus but they never can provide an argument which stands on any truth.
Ah well ruth there is no factual proof for the existence of God or Jesus Christ either. Atheism is simply the rejection of a belief in supernatural deities. It is not 100% certainty, and if God came down and said hi any atheist worth his salt would of course revise that opinion. But I don’t think this is ever going to happen. There is simply a very good case to be made for not being a theist, and so atheism/agnosticism fills this gap. I am pretty familiar with the Bible myself from when I was younger but I can’t say I ever experienced the truth of God’s word through reading it.
Also bear in mind there are many, many religions in the world, who all think the others wrong, so who is to say which one is right?? Could they all be wrong?? Could they all overlap in having some good guidelines but sill all be as flawed as the humans that concocted them? You have grown up in a part of the world where Christianity dominates, so this is simply what you adhere too. If you had been born into a different part of the world where a different religion dominated you may likely have very different views indeed on Jesus and the bible.
Religion in general, and Christianity has a lot to answer for…religious wars like crusades, persecution of religious minorities, repression of women and gays, of witch burning, persecution of scientists like Galileo, and the Biblical Christian God is a jealous God of fire and brimstone, of manipulation, and is a tyrannical bully of Man. So a good case could be stated by not having such a God as a moral role model! Thus atheism is simply the rejection of theism and all the superstition and fear mongering and control that comes with that. This alone is a good case for rejecting organised religion such as Christianity; the lack of evidence is another area that should make anyone of an objective mind question why they believe what they do.
You have a holy bible? Because that is all the proof ANYONE SLIGHTLY INTELLIGENT needs to disprove the bible. Filled with lies, hate, and pure disgust. You should not boast about a religion that has killed hundreds of thousands with the sick ideas spread fourth as… what? I am not an atheist. My life is great.
wheres your proof god exists
Your comments are useful to no one.
why not share diverse opinions here? aren’t you down with “diversity”?
Jesus = the only begotten Son of God
Religion = a man-made counterfeit ritualized set of laws and rules
Religion tells us to “do things to get to heaven”
Jesus says “it is finished”
Religion puts you in bondage
Jesus sets you free
While Jesus was hanging on a cross, He was just thinking of you
Religion is man searching for God
Jesus is God searching for man
I once was lost and now I am found because Jesus called me home. And now I am free and it was Jesus who paid my debt. I think it is a testimony worth sharing. Is there anything more important than a soul saved from eternal damnation? No. Not for me.
We all have a choice – and nobody makes anybody choose anything. I come here to share my truth.
“Jesus = the only begotten Son of God” This is entirely a religious claim!! You need to believe in God for this to make any sense at all, and not just any god ruth but the Christian God! Whatever the case, you view Jesus as a supernatural deity, and by that definition alone are a theist/religious. No way of getting around this! All your Jesus mumblings have been heard repeatedly…if you don’t believe Jesus ever existed then they don’t really hold much weight. Your faith in Jesus is simply the interplay of your personality and your living in the part of the world that you do. Evert single religion on Earth believes all others to be wrong, and those other non conforming people are going to Hell. So everyone is damned according to this ridiculous logic, Jesus or no Jesus.
And yes ruth that is simply your truth, but not the universal truth, something you seem to keep forgetting. A quote for you. “If you talk to God, you are praying; If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia.” – Thomas Szasz
It is interesting that while your insistence that LSD enlightens- and my experience that Jesus truly IS the only begotten Son of God, somehow these are different? No- we each have our own personal experiences which equal the truth as each of us knows it.
Yours is not better or smarter. Neither is mine. Everyone should test the truth they are seeking and see if it bears fruit. Does Jesus make Himself real to those who seek Him? Of course. Does He bless your life? Absolutely.
Does the Holy Spirit speak to people? Definitely. And who runs and operates and manipulates the world of “psychology”? I wonder……
“schizophrenia” is a man made name to fit in with a man made healing method which is usually treated by what? Drugs of course.
I never made the claim that LSD “enlightens” so please don’t be putting words to my name I never uttered, only that it is has the potential to be a helpful, beneficial thing sometimes…that was all I was saying. You’ve changed your tune here ruth and seem to be taking more of a mature approach, if you had taken this attitude before I’m not sure such a prolonged debate would have happened…before you were saying strongly that Jesus is the ONLY way, for all people, and anyone that doesn’t vibe with Jesus is eternally lost/damned. My position was if Jesus works for you, that’s great, but different paths work for different people, we are all individuals and unique in our make up, so different strokes for different folks. It would be a more dull world if we were all sheep and were walking the same path as one another.
Also please understand I’m not against the idea of a power or something behind the universe, I just view religion has a human ego led attempt at framing that, and ultimately we are doomed to fail at this, being flawed beings, and too many humans have interfered with religion for their own ends over the centuries and diluted the original core message. So I would rather take religion out of the equation entirely, and search for my own meaning directly.
To clarify……in regard to taking acid (LSD) you said no, you never meant the word “enlighten”- but yes on “beneficial” and “helpful”.
From Websters dictionary:
1. “en·light·en” transitive verb: to give knowledge or understanding
2. ben·e·fi·cial adjective producing good or helpful results or effects : producing benefits
3. help·ful adjective making it easier to do a job, deal with a problem, etc. : giving help
As you can see this is nonsensical- can something produce helpful results yet somehow exclude understanding or knowledge? How then would a person be able to know if it was helpful or not? it would have no meaning! (ie, “I dropped acid and it was “helpful”. But it gave me no knowledge or understanding…”)
You keep misunderstanding what Jesus is. I have no righteousness. Like all humans I was born into a sinful nature (humanity). Jesus took the sinfulness of the world when He offered Himself to be a living sacrifice. We worship Jesus in spirit only. His word is the only truth there is- He made everything. His word will rebuke evil if the ones who use it are under His authority.
You have said you follow worldly truths- taking drugs to get “helpful benefits”, seeking truth in man’s scientific endeavors. These things are nothing in comparison to the one who created LIFE itself. Just because you have not figured this out yet does not mean it is not true.
These are spiritual concepts which are only discerned when one has submitted themselves to Jesus. You have said you have not done this! You behave as if you are thoroughly insulted by someone like myself who does love and know Jesus. Who cares if I do? As I asked you before (you never answered) – aren’t you down with diversity? So I am sharing a diverse opinion.
Why would you expect to comprehend and debate on a subject which you cannot discern? As far as I can see you cannot even discern basic vocabulary words.
‘Enlighten’ has more than one definition ruth…it is you that need to check you basic vocabulary!! Being this seems to be a religious debate, by a deduction of logic I thought you would have been inferring enlightenment in a religious sense when you brought it up. Ergo, the definition I had in mind was as follows:
enlightenment (ɪnˈlaɪtənmənt)
n
1. the act or means of enlightening or the state of being enlightened
2. (Hinduism) Buddhism the awakening to ultimate truth by which man is freed from the endless cycle of personal reincarnations to which all men are otherwise subject
3. (Hinduism) Hinduism a state of transcendent divine experience represented by Vishnu: regarded as a goal of all religion
…this definition of enlightenment seems a lot more relevant to the nature of the discussion, but let’s go with your definition. With regard that, yes then I do believe that LSD and other psychedelics have been profoundly personally enlightening. I find, without fail, they put me into a state of supreme oneness with all creation…barriers are down and I am utterly connected to the Earth, to others, and to the universe. Looking up in the universe an experiencing the awe and beauty of that is profoundly humbling and beyond what words can describe. You can keep your Jesus ruth! I prefer this intimate, unfiltered connection to the cosmos. Psychedelics have enhanced the empathy I feel towards other people, and other life, and they have made me a less materialistic person…things like material possessions, money and ego dominated pursuits have been revealed to me as highly superficial pursuits. They have also made me focus more on healthy life style, emphasizing the important of good diet and exercise.
One of the reasons I don’t like organised religions such as Christianity is that they are of the opinion man was made in God’s image and somehow superior to all of Nature, and that is there purely for our exploitation; to use as how we see fit. I think this is an incredibly arrogant, ignorant and anthropocentric view to hold. Psychedelics are powerful antidotes to this very narrow, unsustainable and constrained way of thinking, in that one experienced themselves as a part of nature, a tiny part of an unutterably vast and mysterious whole, and this is a very nourishing feeling.
So yes psychedelics have impacted my life in a number of positive ways, and in ways beyond words I can explain…even if were to cease all psychedelic use for the rest of my life, these insights are a part of me now and won’t leave, so my experienced have literally been life changing, but more importantly, life enhancing.
On the Jesus stuff, as has bee said ruth, no one of this is objective fact, just Biblical fairy tales, none of which likely have any basis in reality. So believe such tales if you like, but take them with a pinch of salt. At least psychedelics induce a real experience of some kind, which puts them a league above in thoughts about a hypothetical Jesus character any day in my book!
Who is the ONE who created life??? I thought you didn’t believe In God, only Jesus?? It certainly wasn’t Jesus. Again we differ in opinion here. The Bible, if taken literally, states that God made the Earth in seven days about 6,000 years ago, made Man from dust, a woman from a bit of his rib, there was a naughty talking snake and a funny tree and lots of other stuff. If anyone actually believe any of this stuff for real they should maybe consider a,psychiatric evaluation! I think even the people who wrote the bible meant to it be taken metaphorically, not literally!
I would rather explore and contemplate the mystery myself in ways I see fit then be told what to think by a very outdated book that does not have humanities best interests at heart. Science I see as a valid part of this exploration…expanding our knowledge I believe is one of the highest acts a human being can engage in.
As previously mentioned in my last posting, you cannot comprehend what or who Jesus is until you seek him. You are trying to comprehend something from a carnal and worldy mindset- and this is why you stumble here again and again.
Jesus = FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT. And these are ONE. You will not discern this until you seek Jesus.
as for your LSD drugs? Your comment is a bit humorous isn’t it? “At least psychedelics induce a real experience”…
Drugs are “real”? We all know drugs provide an escape from reality – a way to hide from truth.
A shortcut. They take you from reality by chemically altering your BRAIN.
It is perfectly fine that you tried to define a vocabulary word by trying to squeeze it into a Buddhist or hindu framework but that is incorrect. Otherwise it would never be used in any other context except religious. Now who is making assumptions and putting words in my mouth??? hmmmm?
After all didn’t you say you follow man-made ideas over Christ’s? So therefore you should fully be able to comprehend the author of the popular dictionary by Webster.
Isn’t is great that you can overcome your immaturity and honor my spiritual walk with Jesus Christ? If not perhaps you should ask yourself why you don’t.
“Isn’t is great that you can overcome your immaturity and honor my spiritual walk with Jesus Christ? If not perhaps you should ask yourself why you don’t.”
The irony is palpable
Enlighten us please. What’s the irony?
Sam- I am certain we have thoroughly covered this topic in multiple ways.
In short, I love and honor and follow Jesus Christ whom I know to be the only begotten Son of God. You don’t.
You think LSD is “helpful”. I think it is a cheap escape from reality and opens spiritual doors which can be dangerous.
You place science by mortal man over the truth and knowledge of Jesus Christ. I place Jesus Christ above EVERYTHING.
I am here to share my beliefs and so are you. We are done!
I have no interest or desire to seek out Jesus Christ, I am very happy with my life as it is and I don’t feel need to pursue lies like Jesus Christ. Nothing you can say will change my mind on this, believing in Jesus Christ as a supernatural magical deity or the son of the Christian God is still a religious belief as the definition stands, I look back at the biblical story of Jesus as a good story with some lesson s on morals to be learned, but that’s it, it’s a story and metaphorical at best…I don’t believe he was the son of God or came back from the dead anymore than I believe those things about myself or anybody else. So please pursue your delusions if it makes you happy, just know you are in no position to be judging others about their path.
My point still stands, psychedelics induce a real tangible experience unless thinking/believing silly stuff about Jesus, you have absolutely no experience with these agents and you have no idea how they work, so how you can you even pass judgement?? I know a lot more about Jesus than you do about psychedelic drugs. If you think they offer a mere escape from reality you clearly have no clue about how they actually work. Your brain being altered makes no sense, your brain is chemically altered when you are in states of prayer, or meditation, or reverence, our entire reality is based on our seeking out good and pleasurable or wholesome experience that lead to pleasing changes in brain chemistry, and the avoidance of experiences which have a detrimental effect; our entire existence is modulated by our interacting chemistries in the brain. Do not try and reflect my enlighten point back on to me, you know exactly what i meant, we were having a religious debate and so it follows this is the sense enlightenment would have been discussed.
Jesus Christ IS a man made idea!!! That’s the whole thing, why is that so hard to see?? Yes I place science and reality above the “truth and knowledge” of Jesus Christ, which as I’ve said I don’t believe to be truth or knowledge in an objective story, more a story that something can be learned from. I find it hard to see why people would subscribe to something so outdated and something that was very likely never meant to be taken literally in the first place.
You say LSD is the same as prayer. No- not the same. If it were, why not save your money on dope and just pray???
You seem very angry that someone would come on here and speak about Jesus! Why? Who cares? Why does Jesus bother you so much?
I am not in charge of leading you to Jesus- that is the job of the Holy Spirit. As I have said, feel free to drop as much acid as you want.
Sam: We are in the same boat… I agree with you 100%… and we are not alone. Their logic is flawed, and they seem unable to concede an inch over their belief system. I was raised Catholic, and my entire family is still “hard-core” christian… (they sponsor prayer nights at their homes 2-4 times a week). I know, I see, I have lived in the environment where you put on blinders, do not question what is in the Book, and hope to accrue enough points to get into Heaven.
Ruth: may you find the heaven you seek, and always find your happiness. Ignorance is bliss. Yes, I understand that in your view of the world, Sam and I are the ignorant ones, for believing that the story of “Jesus” is a fabrication/fable and should not be taken literally. Let’s just agree to we live in different mental universes, and we just can’t compare or argue the basis of our separate realities. It is like a fish and a bird sharing notes. You live under water, I do not. And don’t again try to separate “Jesus” from “Christianity” or religion in general. You believe in a Deity, that makes you religious… English definition. If Jesus is the “only deity”, the “best deity”, the “one above it all”… it still makes “Him” a deity, and thus makes you, “Religious”.
I was also raised catholic. Was in an all boys Opus Dei based elementary school. Dogma is a prison, surrounded by Logic Walls (keeping it out rather than in)
Religion seeks to “find God”.
Jesus finds His own sheep and they know His voice. I knew Him even when there was no religious dogma anywhere in sight.
A relationship with Jesus is not Catholicism- that’s a religion with set prayers you repeat, idols, relying on a priest for forgiveness….no. Jesus is the ONLY High priest there ever was or will be.
You cannot discern Jesus unless you submit to Him with all your heart.
Arguing and mocking won’t change this.
Acid/LSD won’t save your soul when your body dies.
Jesus can.
And this is where I just want to pull my hair out… your logic is so flawed… You make reasonable comments, and then… completely crazy ones. “Salvation”, “Jesus is not religion”, etc.
So… everybody born before Jesus is simply unsavable. Millions of people who were born before the all mighty… all in Hell. Also, anybody who practices other religions today, no religion, or even those remote populations who have no contact with “civilized” societies. We are all going to miss out on Salvation.
I have “allowed” religion to rule my life, and realize it was a waste.
Question your beliefs just once…go watch “Religulous”, from Bill Maher. Or Zeitgeist. Allow a seed of doubt to sip in. Sam and I do not know the “final” answer… but we continue looking, and we are willing to have the rug pulled from under us at any given time. That is how I felt when I found out that Jesus was a fairy tale… It shook me at my core. I grew up thinking about this prophet, this man, this son of God… and it was all a fable.
I have allowed you in my mind… I have questioned my own belief system… due to nothing else but your tireless passion around this Jesus. Well, I came out of the other side even more certain that “Jesus” is a hologram…
You are being stubborn, and as much as we try to get you to at least “acknowledge” our tune, you shut it out, and continue playing your song. If your salvation bus requires This ticket, I would rather not be “saved”
I am trying to tell you the answer to all these questions but you cannot hear me. You keep trying to understand Jesus with logic. This is impossible. Jesus can only be understood with a humble heart and not your carnal mind.
1 Corinthians 2-That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
What a sad pathetic love for Jesus I would have if somehow my faith could be shaken by an internet debate with non believers??? No- this is not possible when one knows the pure love of Jesus.
How does it happen? I can tell you my testimony. I searched for yrs for truth in science, occult, eastern religion. I tried to find happiness, satisfaction, whatever in my own way and it fell flat. Don’t take this as me saying my life is your life- this is strictly my own experience I speak of.
I asked God in sincerity for some guidance during a dark time. Jesus made Himself known to me and led me to His word which led me to knowing Him even more and I realized what a charade this world was. And how lost most people are.
These messages are not for everyone’s ears because not everyone can handle this truth. As you can see the message of Jesus Christ often pisses people off. That’s should tell you something. He came and led a sinless, perfect loving life and they hated Him for it. As they hate Him now.
Humility is not a popular trait. God said to test the spirits and see if they are real. He knows everyone inside and out so when we seek Him in sincerity, He knows. And He is real. Nobody can know Jesus without first acknowledging that they need Him. So you see why so many miss out.
This didn’t start with Jesus. This started with you saying things that are objectively wrong about psychedelics. And when confronted with facts, you rejected them if not ignoring them outright.
“I am trying to tell you the answer to all these questions but you cannot hear me. You keep trying to understand Jesus with logic. This is impossible.”
This is not a Jesus/Religion article. What happened is when confronted with facts that you could not handle, you resorted to an unverifiable tirade about Jesus. Awesome, Jesus works for you, great. If you are not interested in logical discussion, not only why are you on this website but why are you responding to a science/logic based article on objective benefits of certain chemical substances? There are a million websites where you can just say stuff and believe its true because you believe it. You don’t even need a website. By all means, come up with whatever idea you want and believe THAT to be truth.
Science, this word that you seem so threatened by is about inquiry. My god is made of pasta. I am a pastafarian. I believe in that so it is true. Belief doesn’t make truth. But at the end of the day humans will believe whatever we want to believe. By all means, believe in whatever, but when it comes to fact based discussion, which is the basis of this very article, save your “Belief”.
No- I do not believe in scientists as anybody worth following or quoting. Nor do I believe that any study can prove that chemically altering one’s brain with acid is a good thing. Science is and always has been funded by greed and ulterior motives run by corporations and they have been known to lie about their research. Their studies frequently precede something which they profit from like a new diagnosis which happens to match a new drug.
I don’t place science in an exalted category as many here do. I think using dope for any personal growth is a lie and a weak shortcut.
What I do know is that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. And nothing can compare to what He can do for a person who seeks Him.
Once again- do all the acid you want. It’s your brain.
ruth, breakthrough’s in science and technology are the sole reasons who are able to express your baffling and bigoted opinion on this website via the internet, via your computer, powered via AC electricity. Science is why you have access to clean drinking water, a vast range of foods and medicines. Jesus didn’t achieve these things, science did. So I think it would be both highly ignorant and arrogant to give science any credit and treat with outright distrust when you are actively reaping its benefits while demeaning it! Somewhat hypocritical. You have a lot to be grateful for in a scientific sense whether you choose to feel that way or not. Used well and for good intentions, science has a vast and incredible capacity for good.
Science is not always funded by greed, what a preposterous thing to say. Yes humans fall foul of greed a lot, and yes this can extend to science. But scientists themselves aren’t in it for the money! As a demographic I bet greed is much less prevalent among scientists than it is among other people. Scientists have a right to earn a living as we all do, but in its pure form is motivated by the pursuit of furthering human knowledge, which I believe to be one of the noblest things a human being can work towards. So if anything, blame the corporations you mention who fund the science, not the scientists themselves. Whatever your thoughts, there are many hundreds of papers going back half a century, showing the efficacy of LSD, and other psychedelics in treating a range of conditions, such as various forms of mental illness, PTSD, cluster headaches, as a therapy aid, in addiction and fear and anxiety in the terminally ill. This is the professional opinion of many scientists across many different frontiers of medicine and psychiatry. And these tend to be a nice bunch of people as scientists go, I’ve met a few of them, and they deeply, genuinely want to help people. With some of these conditions psychedelics have shown enormous promise, and this is still a cutting edge frontier with research only just now starting up followed the 60’s clamp down.
Scientists do admit they are wrong sometimes, and you very rarely hear this coming from religious folk. Anyway it is obvious you carry a very one sided attitude around regarding these substances. the way you refer to them as “dope” is kind of derogatory, in that no psychedelics are actually referred to as dope. We all here know about Jesus, and you have chosen to make him a central focus of your life. You however, know absolutely nothing about psychedelics beyond what you have read on the internet, which is almost entirely stuff that aligns with your very one sided and very biased view on things. And without the direct experience, you won’t ever know what you are talking about, this is not something you can experience via the written word. You don’t have a balanced overview, and simply ignore facts or evidence which is a little frustrating, but I guess this is a necessary prerequisite of having a religious faith. You are entitled to you opinion, even if it is wrong.
YET you are SO quick to “believe” in information about a shadowy MKULTRA program!!
You pick your truth! If it doesn’t agree with your belief, it is just discarded. Truth for you is whatever you select. Good luck in this world!
That’s just your view though ruth, and that doesn’t make it so. If that belief gives you happiness and strength, then good for you. Let others walk their own path without projecting your belief or opinion as fact.
I absolutely did not say or claim that “LSD is the same as prayer.” Please stop twisting what I say!! I simply said that one thing LSD and states of prayer or reverence have in common is an alteration on brain chemistry and brain waves which is true. I would much rather meditate than prey, and I do sometimes. Mindfulness meditation as taught by the Buddha (who unlike Jesus, definitely did exist) has an interesting and ever expanding body of scientific evidence to support it’s benefits on the mind and body. Here spirituality and science have converged in a beautiful way. Jesus doesn’t bother me at all, it’s soap-box-pedestal-ignorance that bothers me, the perception that’s one’s way is superior to all others, when this is purely a subjective opinion and not an objective fact. It is rare for me to indulge with psychedelics these days, it has nothing to do with quantity ingested. Such experiences happen a few times a year maybe, and not really with LSD these days, more natural earthy psychedelics such as mushrooms and ayahuasca. Some people go to Church…I go to the plants and fungi. I know which I prefer.
Alright,
I am not a person to leave a comment, in fact this is the first comment that I have ever left, on any site, but after reading this back and forth rant I have to take part in this discussion.
Ruth – Before I begin I’d like to share with you 3.) tid-bits about me….
1.) I wasn’t born into the church, I sought out Jesus in my early twenties and for five years he was my absolute homeboy. I went on mission trips, participated in church and frequent bible studies, needles to say I understand devout faith and your quest to spread his word. Once upon a time I was on that same road.
2.) Not too often, but maybe once or twice a year I’ll engage in psychedelic activity. For the soul purpose of deepening my understanding of God, myself, and my connection. Not just with this earth but the loving people around me.
3.) My brother, who I was once very close with, developed schizophrenia. Needless to say his onset was brought upon by him locking himself in his room for 7 days and 7 nights living off of “Gods word” in the bible…Previously He was in all AP classes and an acolyte at our church. He now thinks he can speak Russian, read peoples minds, communicate through thinking and a series of other off the wall things that do not exist in this reality.
To say that schizophrenia is a “man made healing method” is something beyond ignorance and any sort of compassion. If you are implying that submitting to Jesus would cure his aliments, I have to point out the obvious that he was a man of strong faith before his decline. As a person of God you should be familiar with the below verse:
John 8:7 – So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
If you are in fact sin free, then I’ll appreciate your thoughts on how drugs are bad and listen intently. If you aren’t sin free then please, cast another stone.
You may not agree with anything that anyone on this site thinks, but by truly living for Jesus and through Jesus, that requires a life of understanding and non judgment. Which means the ability to let others live the life that they choose. Be it believing in the same God or not.
My personal stance on God is one of love and acceptance. I prayed heavily over the thought that I was uncomfortable with the idea that people who do no accept Jesus will not be saved. I prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed over this because it didn’t sit well with me. One day, I walked out of church, got in my car, cried, and realized that Jesus, God, a force, the universe, what ever is above us all, still undoubtedly loves me, and through that connection, I am saved.
You wrote ” These things are nothing in comparison to the one who created LIFE itself. Just because you have not figured this out yet does not mean it is not true.
These are spiritual concepts which are only discerned when one has submitted themselves to Jesus. You have said you have not done this!”
If what you are saying is true, then I should be someone who understands these spiritual concepts, being that I have submitted to Jesus. What I learned in my submission is that God is different for and to everyone. Can’t God be a giant scientist for me and the only savior for you?
Also I’ll leave you with your own sentence just slightly reworded …”Ingesting a hallucinogenic to achieve a higher connection with God is a spiritual concept which is only discerned to those who have tried. Just because you have not figured this out yet does not mean that it is not true”….. I tried submission to Jesus have you tried submission to LSD, which you seemingly know so much about?
Also If you don’t believe in science which you basically stated, I have a question to test your faith and declination to the subject. If you fall and horribly break your arm, will you sit at home and pray risking infection? Or will you pray and then go take part in years of science, that has lead you to an emergency room, equip with light, technology, and the intelligence to know that you have a compound fracture and need surgery immediately? Either of your answers are right, but if you pick that latter I ask you to look inside yourself, and around you and examine the basic principles of life that are proven factually and scientifically and how they are in fact similar and possible through your Jesus or my spiritual connection to God.
On the subject of LSD I would also like to share with you my feelings in comparison with those when experiencing Jesus….. Sometimes while in the church, or home, or outside there is that indescribable moment, where you feel undoubtedly loved and connected to God (I know you know which feeling im talking about). The feeling where you are so connected to life, happiness and love its almost tangible. This godly feeling, is almost identical to LSD, with the exception that it is in fact tangible. You are able to see what you are feeling. This life that God so perfectly created has many layers to it, LSD simply opens your mind up to being able to connect and see those layers. You may argue that its a drug, but to me that experience is more proof than a book of words that GOD exists in everything. Before you judge take a night off from being sinless, Jesus will forgive, after-all that’s what he died for, and allow yourself to connect with what this world really is. LSD has a bad wrap because of propaganda, I urge you to find any adverse side effects from a credible clinical source. I encourage with the notion that I work in the medical field and have a sturdy understanding of the brain and body.
As you graciously stated above, we all have a right to our own truths. If this forum is discerning to you, take a step back, nothing that you say will change our truth from your truth and vice versa. Save your words for praise of and to God and let others continue living out their own truths in a judgement free area.
extremely well spoken
Hmmm…just like everyone else, you find it so easy to “judge”…huh!
So, now that you have spoken, Ruth should “listen” to you?
“Why?” Because of what you have “experienced?” AND, your experience is so much more than…Ruth’s?
I don’t think so!
bobby that was a rude reply after Allie made the effort to make a very eloquent, heart felt, and non judegmental communication. If your “faith” has you behaving this way towards others who are only saying their piece and not passing judgement, it makes it ever more clear to me that faith is baggage that simply weighs you down and clouds your better judgement.
“Did you say something?”
Oh, that’s right! Passing “judgement”…WOW!
You don’t agree with what I said, and therefore passed judgement on me, even though, what I said was nothing more than a “comment!”
BUT, because you “feel” you are 100% correct, it’s alright to pass judgement on those that don’t comment according to “your” beliefs.
Sorry, but that’s just the way this world is, according to you.
Like Jesus, I am NOT of this…World.
You, and everyone like you, can keep this place. This World is based on pure…”IGNORANCE!”
And NOW you are comparing yourself to Jesus when confronted with your own cognitive dissonance (proclamations of righteous judgement, and then comparing yourself to jesus)
Bobby, you are a clown. What are you even doing on this blog?
Bobby I’m seriously concerned about your human ability to “Reason”
Any religious beliefs aside for this example…
The point I’m making about hounding you about your pyramid claim… is that without solid data, any person can make any claim. A claim is baseless if there is no data.
Why is your claim that the pyramids had electricity any more valid than my assumption that there wasn’t but open mindedness to actually scientific data that they did?
In the absence of data, which you do not have, so I will save you the trouble of posting and addressing that, you favour an idea, and then resort to a snarky judgemental comment like “Since you are not even aware of these “simple” facts, it shows you don’t even keep up with your so-called “sciences!” without presenting these facts. This leads me to believe again that you do not understand what a “fact” is.
Bobby, nothing that you have contributed to this discussion has had any value or factual merit. Your mind is a mess.
I initial thought there was some point in trying to show you the disconnect in your thinking.
Not to mention all the cognitive dissonance and immediately accused Allie of being judgemental right after doing so yourself.
Bobby, you gotta get it together man.
But ya next time you hurt yourself, I challenge you to go without anything that the scientific method has provided. I don’t expect an intelligible response from you, but reflect on your hypocrisy next time you find yourself in a hospital… or posting another response to this discussion from your scientifically obtained computer.
but again… open request for pyramid data still stands. I suspect I will only receive another condescending reply about how ignorant I am as a Fact based science man to not know the fact of electric pyramids.
Wow… Thank YOU… So well put… I have printed it and saved it.
Love, pure love, in the end, is what this is all about… the “face” of love changes for all of us, but that “sensation”, place, emotion, etc is the golden ticket. It is the Nirvana and the Salvation… it is the end… the means, and the beginning.
Cheers… greetings… hugs and smiles… May Love continue to shine upon you…. may our lives continue to be ever filled with Wonder.
jesus was indeed a real person. but i think all of you on here need to realize the bible isnt something you can take for literal truth. it is a book which has been changed many many many many times since it was written thousands of years ago thousands and thousands for some of the parts in it… i believe jesus was a good man just like ppl who take lsd who understood the world and what it was and wanted ppl to love and be good.. and he was killed for his teachings just like we r discriminated against for our beliefs on psychedelics. then his word was misconstrued thru time and is now used as a weapon to kill other ppl and to stop others (like gays) from being happy. organized religion is the bane of mankind in the sense that all religious people believe they r so righteous and good that they will actually be horrible people when trying to make others see there side of things. so who are the righteous ones? you or us? we dont discriminate against you we only ask u dont be so closed minded about us
Sorry to “burst your bubble,” Scott, BUT, NO! The Holy Scriptures have NOT been changed ONE IOTA since they were written more than two thousand years ago! You HAVE TO BE referring to the Koran which changes every time someone “reads” it!
Personally, I have no problem with people using “hallucinogenic” chemicals/drugs for recreation purposes. BUT, when they start saying there is no problem with it…THAT’S CROSSING THE LINE! If using these types of drugs is so “GREAT”…why do you stop? You should remain “psyched-out” ALL the time! Obviously, you don’t! “Why?” They’re Great! Right?
’nuff said! All you’re “positive” insight and everyone else’s “positive” feedback is “full of crap!” You’ve taken too many trips to realize the difference between reality and your “euphoric” state of mind.
You’re are correct about “Religions” in that they are used to benefit one group of people or another. AND, that goes for ALL “Religions”…they are ALL “man-made!”
However, the “…Teachings of Jesus Christ…” STAND ON THEIR OWN! AND He, does NOT endorse following any Religion…whatsoever (sorry Christians, Catholics, etc.)!!!
btw…Jesus Christ is not “just a man!” He IS the Messiah and is known by different name throughout the World. He IS the same Messiah that is mentioned and prophesized about in texts prior to those of the Holy Scriptures. All, Ruth, is doing, is sharing the “Good News” with you! But you are so “hell-bent” in the ways of the World, you too arrogant to understand that! NO! I’m NOT calling you “arrogant”…it’s simply the way most people in “our” society ARE!
Jesus Christ, was crucified due to the arrogance of “our” society which hasn’t changed in the past TWO THOUSAND YEARS! How SAD is that?
Take Care and God Bless!
Oh dear. You have absolutey no proof that every word in the bible remains unchanged for thousands of years. That’s simply not possible. Here’s why:
To translate from one language to another means that every single word used may not have a direct equal in the target language. Thus, one has to approximate based upon the current culture of the target language. One thousand years ago, that translated word may have been accurate. That written word however, did not evolve as the spoken target language has. The word has taken on a different meaning. Be it more or less in line with the original translation… it simply is not the same.
If the bible were unchanged, as you claim, you’d be learning ancient Hebrew and ancient Greek in order to learn the ancient text. None of this lazy modernizing.
LSD (as well as ayahuasca, mescaline, psilocybin mushroooms, DMT, MDMA) all changed my life in profound and very positive ways and I would never trade those experiences. I was fortunate to be amongst loving, intelligent, highly conscious, good people during my experiences, in safe, nurturing environments with high quality in the medicines. These things should always be made & taken with reverence. It is not for everyone, but I hope they develop more treatments and can use them to help more and more people overcome many conditions. The world needs more conscious, healthy people in charge of caring for our planet Earth and all who inhabit her.